Business Boost Hour

Business Boost Hour

menu close

14. Crowdfunding Success: From EMT to Marketing Maven

/ 01:15:51/E14
Crystal:

Do you feel like you are a good marketer? No? Yes? In this episode, we meet with Andrew Loewen where we discuss how you probably know a lot more about marketing than you actually realized. Stay tuned to find out more.

Eric:

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Business Boost Hour podcast. My name is Eric Beals, and I'm the vice president of BNI Escondido.

Crystal:

And my name is Krystal Privette, the president of BNI Escondido, and welcome to the single CEU podcast.

Eric:

And, today, we have

Andrew Lowen:

Superman. Superman. I I'm, so, yeah, my name is Andrew Loewen. I run Next Level Web, and I have fun doing it. I'm the biggest nerd out of all y'all that are watching this podcast, and, I do digital marketing.

Andrew Lowen:

So

Eric:

And you also have your own podcast. Can you see how he just, like, jumped right into that? Most everyone's like, what do I say? What do I do? He's just like, okay.

Eric:

Let's go. Let's get right into it.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric:

That's great. And, what what's your what's your podcast?

Andrew Lowen:

So I I run a podcast called Crowdfunding Nerds. It is a podcast about crowdfunding an idea. So when you have a really great idea and no money, you go to crowdfunding. It's a a system that allows you to, present your idea before lots of people. In essence, lots of end users that might be interested in, in essence, pre ordering the product.

Andrew Lowen:

And thereby, if enough people do that, you actually bring the idea to life. So I brought a board game to kickstarter, dotcom, which is one of these crowdfunding websites. I raised $314,000 for that board game. I was able to make I was able to actually finish that game to make a physical edition, order 5,000 units of of the game and and and all of that. So, there are lots of nerds

Crystal:

living

Andrew Lowen:

in their parents' basements with really great ideas

Eric:

Wow.

Andrew Lowen:

That just don't have funding. And so that's that's a great way to get

Eric:

the idea. What a cool industry. And such such it's such a unique one as well too.

Crystal:

Superman fashion. Just swooping in and saving the nerds.

Andrew Lowen:

That's right. Yeah.

Eric:

Their

Crystal:

own house and then taking a mom in a different way.

Eric:

Yeah. So So move move from the basement up to the attic or master bedroom. I don't know. As long as it's upward and upward. You

Andrew Lowen:

know? Yep. Yep. Yeah. So it's, it's an interesting, combination of clients that I serve because that originally around so I've been in business since 2009.

Andrew Lowen:

I started my business part time, alongside of what I was currently doing, which was I was going to be an EMT, firefighter, you know, event was the eventual career path.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

And I knew firefighters had side gigs, oftentimes businesses. And so I got into this business selling vitamins part time.

Eric:

You know, a lot of people

Andrew Lowen:

are familiar with multi level marketing. And, but this business had they were involved in every, like, multibillion dollar industry. They tried to find a way to be involved in it. And one of them was web design. So web design was a huge, huge thing.

Andrew Lowen:

And, you know, at the times, again, 2009, so like building a website was a big deal. Yeah. Like if you could build 1. Right? And so, I sold them.

Andrew Lowen:

I started selling websites. And it was a lot easier. In fact, it was about the same amount of difficulty to say, this is a $50 bottle of vitamins and convince you to buy this as it was a $2,000 website. It's it's like the same level of difficulty. And I'm like, I would rather make more money than less.

Andrew Lowen:

So, let's try this. And, had enough success at it that I eventually decided to quit what I was doing and just take it full time. I just entire I became an EMT. I started working for, Tri City Hospital in Oceanside. And then I just quit everything cold turkey after after that and went full bore into selling websites.

Andrew Lowen:

And I wasn't even the one that made them. I just simply, in essence, tried to connect the 2 parties. Mhmm. But over time, I found that people, you know, it just it didn't take me very long to realize that the reason people were paying me money, because I was the one that pocketed money and I would, you know, had a sub in essence, subbed out web design. The reason that people would pay me is because they trusted me, that I would make sure Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

That they got the product that they, you know, paid for and that sort of thing. And if they didn't trust me, I couldn't I couldn't get them to trust in my company that I represented without also getting them to trust in me and my integrity and who I was and that I would that I would fight for them and that sort of thing. You know? Mhmm. Yep.

Andrew Lowen:

And so, fast forward, what is that? 15 years, you know, over 15 years now. And then I run a digital marketing agency. I have a staff of 8, and, we work in several different verticals. One of them is service based businesses.

Andrew Lowen:

Another one is product based businesses. And it's funny because plumbers and, solar companies and lots of clients that you guys know, but everything kind of boils down to service based business. There's a way to sell service based business, and then there's a certain way to sell product based businesses. And there's about 85% of those that are the same. So between the 2.

Andrew Lowen:

And only the it's the last 15% that is, what makes you stay in business. You know?

Eric:

When you say the 8585 percent of of the the same, you mean, like, the the methodologies are the same between, between

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. So, like, when you think about it, you have, every business needs customers. You have to have somebody that buys the thing that you make. Mhmm. So you have to do something of value.

Andrew Lowen:

You have to communicate the value, and then you have to convince somebody that they that they need it. Or find somebody that's already this is what I try to recommend is find somebody that already knows they need it, and just present them with the solution. Right? You don't need to say like, Crystal, are you thirsty? You know?

Andrew Lowen:

Here's the water. It's very nice. Look at it. Sparkle in this beautiful glass. It's like, you might say, I'm thirsty.

Andrew Lowen:

And I was like, I have a solution. You know? That's that's the way I like to sell. Mhmm. So, it's, it's we're sold to so much.

Andrew Lowen:

When we just you drive down the street, like, you you block it out. Whenever you go into the center of a town, you see billboards everywhere, you see

Crystal:

Bombarded with it.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So your brain is just like, instead of letting you get assaulted, I'm just gonna like block this out. So you don't see the Coca Cola logo on top of the umbrella.

Andrew Lowen:

You don't see the Allstate Insurance billboard. You don't see, all of those things. But you're you're exposed to on average. Like, if you go through a drive, I mean, it just in a day, you're exposed to an average of about 47, different, ad pieces.

Eric:

Just Well, yeah, I I I Well, that's not even turning on your phone. Yeah. Yeah. Not even I believe it. And just But you know what?

Eric:

What's interesting so it actually kind of, like, sparked something some like a, a memory for me that and I'm kinda curious on your your thought thoughts, on this actually. And that is so so one, I I I think, you know, we're we're marketed to and and sold to every day, but we don't really realize it. And that's probably, like, the best kind. Like Yeah. Feels like you're being sold to.

Andrew Lowen:

Have you been told that you're a good salesman?

Eric:

No. I've been told I'm a bad salesman. Okay.

Andrew Lowen:

So if you And that

Eric:

and and when I've been told that, I was like, you know what? I don't think I want you as a client now because if you're gonna be this much of a brat, I don't know about that. It's like, I'm I'm an engineer. Okay? Like, this is my thing.

Eric:

I can sell, but I'm just like, I don't know.

Andrew Lowen:

It's not

Eric:

it's not it's not my my favorite thing thing thing

Andrew Lowen:

to do.

Eric:

I just wanna you know, me, I'm more along the lines of this is what I have to offer, and I'm I'm and and this is how I think it might be able to help you and such. But, you know What

Crystal:

if they said you were a good salesman?

Andrew Lowen:

It means you're a bad salesman. So it means they outed you as a salesman.

Eric:

No. I've heard I've heard people tell me straight up. Like like like, you need to work on your sales. And I'm just like, you need to work on your attitude, buddy. But, Yeah.

Eric:

But, but yeah. So I

Andrew Lowen:

like, the the the idea behind selling stuff is that you want to find people you don't wanna convince somebody to sells, to buy something. Yeah. You want to find somebody that's already interested in buying and present them with your stuff. You know?

Crystal:

And that's motivational instead of transactional.

Andrew Lowen:

Right. It's it's, and in the end, you're you're helping people get what they need, and it helps you feel good about yourself. Even if it's something dumb, Like, an important thing.

Crystal:

With BNI. Like Yeah. We're sending a referral. If it's the right fit, then you're like, yay. It worked for everybody.

Andrew Lowen:

Right.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Yeah. In a lot of ways, I want to know you know, there's there's that, VCP.

Crystal:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

There's, know, like, trust. You know, a lot of different acronyms that we use to try to explain things. But

Eric:

What is know, like, trust?

Andrew Lowen:

So that's actually a really interesting one because I I need to get to know who you are. I need to grow to actually like you

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Before I'm willing to trust you. So when I come and find, you know, let's say we have a plumber or we have somebody that has a profession or a dentist Mhmm. Something that's relatively easy for me to understand Mhmm. I compartmentalize them and I say, okay, you're a plumber, or you're a dentist or whatever. And then I I need but I don't really, I'm not ready to refer that person yet.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

I need to I personally need to know who they are. You know, I've been a member of BNI for a very long time. I wanna say since, like, 2012. And so that's been going on 12, 13 years now. And I want to know who that person is.

Andrew Lowen:

I wanna know about their family. I wanna know about their kids. I wanna know about what they do. They need to know what I I mean, you meet with me for about 2 minutes. You know, I like board games and jujitsu and marketing stuff

Eric:

and Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

And whatever. It doesn't take very long. But, for

Eric:

a good year those things you know, I think those things are gonna naturally you you know, people who already do those things, you're gonna immediately make us like, a, a much stronger connection with those people Right. Right away, which is sounds like the kind of people you wanna connect with anyways.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Right? Other And another thing is that people that are looking to buy something are also looking to support worthy causes. They're looking to, help people in need. They're you know, like Joel Osteen is, so one one person is very good at at selling stuff.

Andrew Lowen:

That guy, he said that a smile in fact, he actually was just quoting from from another statistic that he heard probably. But a smile is more influential than a $5,000 check. That's what he said. And I believe him because that guy's got one heck of a smile. Big old bunny teeth and whatnot.

Andrew Lowen:

And I believe it. In fact, when I help my clients sell, in regard to the product based side, and when you need to raise money that you don't have in order to make something that is your dream, asking or saying you need people's help is a big deal. Don't undervalue saying, you know, just you don't have to like come as like a very humble in a humble way, but it's like, we are building something together and it won't happen without you. Mhmm. That is a very, very powerful way to say, come join my tribe.

Andrew Lowen:

We can do something special together, but you're just asking for help. It's really what you're doing.

Eric:

Well, you know, what's interesting about that is I think, you know, when you ask for that, you're you're you're getting people engaged and and and involved. And when when they have that we've actually talked about that this before on this podcast, like, as people as you kinda get involved with, like, a BNI chapter, you you kind of you you get more engaged with it and you just get better at, like, at contributing more or sending more referrals.

Crystal:

Personal buy in. Yeah.

Eric:

Right. On the and so the I think that's where a lot of the, like, the benefits actually come from, from volunteering, for example. Yeah. And but the same thing happens at my church as well too. So, like like, we we we we try to involve people at, like, we have something called Heart of Compassion.

Eric:

That's a that's a, like a charity event that we do that that our church does, and it's, and and it's a we we we found that people start engaging and connecting with other a lot more members a lot more when they start helping out at things like that.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Yep.

Eric:

And so, I I think, yeah, I I I think that that's that's a really powerful thing to ask people of. Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

Definitely. So, yeah, when you are talking with someone, a lot of the selling like you mentioned, Crystal, relational selling. Yep. When you build a relationship, you you must build some kind of relationship, some kind of rapport before you ask them for a check. Right?

Andrew Lowen:

And, one of them is just, I'm trying to understand what it is that you're looking for. You know? Like, if you if you come to me, and I'm a plumber, let's say, and you're like, I need you. I shouldn't be like, I'll be over on Tuesday. My services are $100 an hour.

Andrew Lowen:

You know? I need I should probably ask why. You know? What do you need?

Crystal:

What supplies do I need?

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Or That's prepared. What is wrong that that makes you say you need a plumber? You know, like, well, I've got water sticking out, you know, just shooting out, or or like a big stain on my wall that just keeps getting bigger or Mhmm. You know, that kind of thing.

Andrew Lowen:

And, or the bathtub fell through the ceiling into the 1st floor. You know, tell me what is wrong. And then I can say, ah, I know what's going on. Or you say, I think my water heater needs replacement. I would ask why.

Andrew Lowen:

You know, I'm gonna try to try to understand. And if I can understand and restate to you the reason that you'll buy my stuff, you know, and you say, okay. I I I need, my water heater replaced because it's old, and I just, you know, I'm upgrading my house, and I'm doing this and that. So it would so that's why I need the water heater replaced. So as a plumber, I might say, well, she doesn't need her water heater replaced.

Andrew Lowen:

You know? Like, it works still. Like, I've I've discerned by our conversation that your water heater works. But you're gonna buy a water heater from somebody because you wanna upgrade it. And it's like, have Crystal, have you, thought about tankless water heaters?

Andrew Lowen:

And you're like, woah. What's a tankless water heater? Oh, it heats up water right away. You're like, really? And that would go great with, like, the vertical shower that I'm putting in or, you know, that kind of thing.

Andrew Lowen:

Those types of things will help me understand what it is that you need. And then I'll be able to say, okay. Now that I understand what you need, here are my recommendations, and those things will be taken very seriously by you because you are now you you feel like I have listened to you. They'd understand what you need. And the solution that I presented is not some boilerplate solution, but it's it's specifically custom designed for to fit what your goals were.

Andrew Lowen:

And that's selling in a nutshell. It's selling a service and then selling a product. You know?

Crystal:

So when it comes to marketing, you say, essentially, people know more than they think they know about marketing. Do you wanna elaborate on that a little bit?

Andrew Lowen:

Sure. Yeah. So that so, yes, my claim is that business owners know much more about marketing than they think.

Eric:

The big big claim.

Crystal:

Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

Yes. So I'd say they know about 85% of what they need to know, and the remaining 15% is why I'm still in business. So, the, in fact, I will even teach. So I have, I've had over 800, you know, probably over a 1000 clients in different industries at this point that are service based. I've helped, you know, client I've had clients get deals on Shark Tank.

Andrew Lowen:

I've had clients, sell, like, I've sold as seen on TV products. I've made 1,000,000 for clients on Amazon and, and just direct sales and whatnot. I've, done nearing about $30,000,000 of revenue for for our clients on Kickstarter. About, just I mean, it's over 200 campaigns now that we've done Kickstarter and GameFound and their other, crowdfunding websites. So I have a lot of experience doing stuff like that.

Andrew Lowen:

And everything always seems to boil down to the exact same thing is, there so for the for services, you're selling, to somebody that needs what it is

Eric:

that you're selling, hopefully. Right? That that need oh, so so like like It's a space

Andrew Lowen:

on need.

Eric:

Like like like yeah. Like, okay. Like like plumber, like like the emergency stuff.

Crystal:

Necessity.

Andrew Lowen:

Right. So if if you have to convince somebody to buy something, then they are about 10 times more expensive than if you if you had somebody that was, like, coming to you, like, I need plumbing services or whatever in some fashion.

Crystal:

So they're less prequalified.

Andrew Lowen:

Right. So if I have to say, Eric, you have a stain right here. Have you thought about that? You're like, yeah, but it's just whatever. You know?

Andrew Lowen:

I'll just paint over it or something like that. It's like, yeah. But your roof is probably leaking.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

And it's you know? But you're like, yeah.

Eric:

But I live in San Diego, and

Andrew Lowen:

and you're you're you're what you're doing is you're issuing objections to my trying to say you need a new roof. Mhmm. Right? And because that's what I'm eventually gonna say is, like, you need a new roof, bro. I can do it.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. But you're like, but I don't want to buy a new roof right now. I'll I'll patch it. If if there's a real rainy day in San Diego, I'll patch it. I'll put a tarp over the top.

Andrew Lowen:

I just wanna spend my money on that.

Eric:

What's wrong with the bucket on the ground?

Andrew Lowen:

It's fine. Right? That's that's sounds awesome. I I always think of Winnie the Pooh. It's like the rain

Eric:

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

Down down down. But, but yeah. So what you're you're not telling me the real objection. The real objection is I don't want to spend my money on that. And, you know, there there are lots of shortcuts that customers make in their in their head to to arrive at their logical conclusion, and they're not logical shortcuts.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

So, what we what I like to do, first of all, is to bypass all of those things and have people say, Andrew, I need marketing service or whatever. You know, like my clients need marketing services for for various things. And so I would rather have somebody that knows they need marketing services than say, you know, I don't know. Eric, you run a podcasting business. You run a videography business.

Andrew Lowen:

Like, I could help you double your business and whatever. You know? That's like, I'm starting to sell you a bill of goods that may sound like snake oil to you, but I would so I I just I don't like to sell like that. That that's the sleazy salesperson, the person who's a good salesman or a bad salesman, you know, those types of people. They all, they're all trying to convince you to buy a thing that you didn't need.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. Right?

Crystal:

So you're ultimately saying your marketing strategy is to be fishing in the right pool of people.

Andrew Lowen:

Well, that's the first part. So and that's a lot of the time, people do this very naturally. They kind of go what with what's working. So, like, Crystal, let's talk about your business. You have a mindset service business.

Andrew Lowen:

Right? You you help you operate you're you're a brain surgeon. You operate on people's thinking as, as I as

Crystal:

I Scalpel free brain surgeon.

Eric:

Yeah. Yep.

Andrew Lowen:

So, where do you find your best clients come from? Or, like, where do you find, like, most commonly when you get a client, where does it come from?

Crystal:

The social media source that I get the most is actually LinkedIn. So I get a fair amount on LinkedIn.

Andrew Lowen:

Awesome. So, what made you try LinkedIn originally?

Crystal:

I love the professionalism, and I actually like that like, I don't have my family community on. Yeah. I love that it's just, like, a business community, and I don't feel like there's, like, as many preconceived notions where Yeah. I don't I personally don't like selling to my friends and family because, like you said, those aren't your people.

Andrew Lowen:

Right. So when you when you when did you start using LinkedIn? Like, has it been a year or 2 years? 4 years. 4 years?

Andrew Lowen:

Okay. So, when you originally tried it, how long did it take for it to work? You know what I mean? Like, when did you get your first, you know, real client? When did you see the the return?

Crystal:

Well, I got my first client off of LinkedIn. So it was within the 1st 6 months at least.

Andrew Lowen:

Okay. So you gave it a try, and then it actually panned out. And and it told you I should keep doing this.

Crystal:

Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

That's that's pretty much what a lot of business owners do. They they, like, lean start leaning into what's working. Right?

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

And so what whatever, you know, whatever that is, whatever industry people are in, they they tend to start to congregate in the right places and be found by the right people and

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Find the right strategic partners, which is why BNI is so powerful. Yeah. Mhmm. And if BNI didn't work for me, if I gave it a year and I didn't get a single referral and I didn't see hope of you know, I mean, I I actually, when I joined BNI, it was, I talked to a guy who was a high powered business coach, named Chuck Hunter. And he I said, hey, Chuck.

Andrew Lowen:

I have like, let me level with you. I've got all these excuses, but I'd really like to do this. I think I can make a sale, like, right away. You know, there's somebody that just at the time, I was selling websites. Right?

Andrew Lowen:

So I needed to make money, and there was a person that was like, oh, I need a website. They said that out loud. I'm like, I can make a sale if I join this group. You know? And, Chuck kind of slowed me down and was like, Hey, man, you know, you have to think about all these other things.

Andrew Lowen:

You have to be a farmer, not a hunter in these type of group. And so he helped me understand, you know, that I need to look at this as more of a long term investment into people. Yeah. And so that's what I did. So I made a sale right away.

Andrew Lowen:

You know, I joined. And this was BNI a wave of success in Carlsbad at the time. Mhmm. And in 2012. And I made a sale right away, and then I did not make another sale for 6 I did not receive another referral for 6 months.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. It was it was like it was actually a very a very desperate time in my career that I really, really needed to make to make sales. You know? I was at that time, my wife was working. I I was just hustling as as hard as I could, and I had a seriously dry spell over the summer.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. And then we had like 6 months of income before we don't have enough to pay for things. And every sale I made just like extended that a little bit. But every month that came, shrank it. And I was like, I really need to make money, and I need to sell stuff.

Andrew Lowen:

And so I would try to sell other places and whatnot, but BNI, the reason that I stayed was because not only because I made one sale, but also I saw the potential of what could be. Like if this person trusts me enough, they will start referring me to their clients, and they have lots and lots of people that I can sell to, which is a lot of the kind of the math that we're doing in our heads. So maybe you made a sale relatively quickly on LinkedIn, but within 6 months, you had to have seen potential. Right? And so I think that a lot of business owners, they quickly are able to judge potential.

Andrew Lowen:

It's like, this is a place that I should go if we felt so there were other networking groups that I attended. Before I knew what I was doing, I was 23 years old, I think when I started trying to attend network. 22 when I started attending networking groups. 24 when I found BNI. So I had been networking for 2 years before this chamber of commerce meetings and, other meetup.com groups and mixers and whatnot.

Andrew Lowen:

And I just did not find success. But then I saw BNI. I went to BNI, and one of the biggest changes was that referrals were passing around in the room. And at the time, they used slips, like, they made slips.

Crystal:

Yeah. And I could see the visual. Yeah.

Eric:

It's like a wall. The white one. Honestly. You know? The the the digital one's nice and convenient, but you do lose the visual, especially from like a Yeah.

Eric:

Even like a visitor. Stand on. Yeah. And, like, you know

Andrew Lowen:

But think of how many trees you save. You know? Save at least, like, one tree a meeting practically. We've passed so many

Eric:

Fair enough.

Crystal:

Yeah. Andrew 32.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Yeah. But, but yeah.

Eric:

Maybe a tablet. Maybe we pass around a tablet, and you kind of you fill it out right there, and you pass it down. I don't know. Yeah. That'd be awesome.

Crystal:

We call it an app.

Eric:

Yeah. No. No. No. No.

Eric:

But with an actual tablet, the physical portion of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

So, but, yeah, it's it's one of those things that I immediately saw something different. I was like, I've I've experienced what I didn't like, and then I saw something different that I very much did, and I didn't understand why I liked it at the time. I was, as a former mentor of mine would say, wet behind the ears. I was very green. I didn't I didn't know business.

Andrew Lowen:

I I wasn't, you know, very experienced, but I saw something about this group that I was like, I want that. You need

Crystal:

more reason to want to be in it because you weren't experienced, and there's so many people that can help shape and make you more well rounded because there's parts of business that you probably don't even realize are happening that when you're in a group like that and information is top of mind and you're hearing every week the newest things happening, it does force you to kinda be a little more well rounded.

Andrew Lowen:

Absolutely. But, you know, like, when when when I visited that first time, the I only had one experience with the group, one single meeting, and I I didn't have this long term thought, but there was something happening in my subconscious. And, Crystal, you understand the subconscious probably better than than either of us here. It is just so powerful. It moves at a 1000000 times the speed of your conscious mind, and and there's something bubbling up in there, and I just Maybe

Eric:

we should switch seats? Sorry.

Andrew Lowen:

No. I don't think so. Who's still You've

Eric:

got it. Something I just Yeah. Doing.

Andrew Lowen:

So, it it it emerges as a feeling. Mhmm. And it's like, I trust my gut. And people say that all the time. Right?

Andrew Lowen:

And it's like, I trust the signals my subconscious brain just did this all this complex calculus and told me, this is good. Do more of this. Mhmm. And, it it comes out as that feeling or of of, like, you know instinct.

Eric:

Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

Right. And so, this is an intrinsic understanding of marketing that every business owner has inside them. And, the the problem is that many business owners, they either don't trust that feeling or don't know how to interpret those signals.

Crystal:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

And, they end up getting, you know, the the the one version of what happens is they get had by some guy who's a marketing guru and said, I'll I'll make you lots of money and then doesn't.

Eric:

And

Andrew Lowen:

then they're left holding an empty bag at the end of the day, and they're like, why am I holding this bag? I thought the world was nice, you know, and then they get all

Eric:

For for for me, like like a flag is if I don't understand it, then you probably shouldn't do it. Like, if it doesn't make sense to you, then one, you you maybe what it is isn't like a scam or whatever, but, like, you still should understand what it actually is that that that the thing that you're being sold to sold for is. But then it also you know, it'll weed out scams as well too.

Andrew Lowen:

Oh, yeah.

Eric:

Right? And because that that's you know, if they wanna try to confuse you and things like that too. And and, or if maybe somebody maybe they're maybe they all have all good intentions, but they don't really fully know what they're doing.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah.

Eric:

And so and that might be coming across, and you might not be quite picking up on it necessarily because maybe their their

Crystal:

Energy never lies. You pick up on so many more things than we realize the subtle, like, body language. Well,

Eric:

that's why you have to listen to that. Yeah. Right. That's why and that I've had that so many times where it's, like, I'll be talking to someone. I'm like, I I've literally I've I I remember one time I I I actually, I was I was helping somebody out with a with a shoot Uh-huh.

Eric:

And or I was going to. And then, it was just a it was a I didn't feel too bad about this because it it was just I was just helping him out as as as a friend. Mhmm. And I, and then that same morning, I I I, like, I I I told Amber, I was like, you know what? I don't think we should do this.

Eric:

I think we should just make an excuse and just Mhmm. And flick it out and and and not and and not do it, which I'm not wanting to do that sort of thing. But I was like, something just does not sit right. Yeah. And then, you know, some sometime later, something happened.

Eric:

I won't go into any kind of details and whatnot, but, like and I was like, oh, I'm glad Before the pandemic. I didn't, like, build that that relationship Mhmm. With that person because it just wouldn't it's it's not who I wanna associate with myself with. Yeah. And so and but it's like one of those things where I'm like, I don't know why I'm doing this.

Eric:

This sounds kind of insane. I'm a logical person as well too. So, like, when I realize that I sound insane, I'm just like

Crystal:

But it's better that you were able to identify it and follow it because if you didn't and say you decided, oh, I'm gonna push past this feeling Yeah. And I'm gonna go ahead and work with this. Sometimes your subconscious

Eric:

can even interject before. Like, maybe you would

Crystal:

have been in a car accident on the way interject before. Like, maybe you would have been in a car accident on the way there, or maybe something would have happened

Eric:

on the I've had times like that too where where I've just was, like, I in and I never really figured out the reason, but I where I was just took a weird driving route that I never take. And but it wasn't like, oh, I wanna go on this this fun route. I was like, I feel like I really should go this route. I was like, I don't know. I was like, I'm just gonna go this route.

Eric:

And then

Andrew Lowen:

It's really tough to tell sometimes if it's the holy spirit or, like, the pizza you ate last night. You know? And sometimes you're like, oh, I don't know. You know? Is that feeling gas, or is that, like, intuition?

Andrew Lowen:

And yeah. It

Crystal:

could be both.

Eric:

It could be both.

Andrew Lowen:

That's you know, serve that up on YouTube for yourself.

Eric:

Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

So, yeah. So,

Eric:

holy spirit or bloated or are you feeling bloated? Yeah. Is that gonna be the title or something? Oh, man.

Andrew Lowen:

So one of the things I also find in regard to marketing and business owners or oh, go ahead, man.

Eric:

Before you move on to that thought, I actually wanted to go back onto another one that I I kinda just made an interesting connection on something that you had said, and that is so so on the the, the services, it's primarily need based.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah.

Eric:

And so the one thing that I've always kind of I noticed for me, I've always came across is, like, a lot of video work and podcasting work is always like, oh, I don't need that.

Andrew Lowen:

Right.

Eric:

However, I made it I did made an interesting connection. The people that I often look for are people who are super passionate about what they do, that they have a very strong calling. Mhmm. And I found I just made this connection that those people very much feel like they need to start a podcast.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric:

And or or they need to create videos because they wanna impact as many people as they possibly can, and they know that they can't, that they can't do it just 1 on 1 stuff. They they have bigger ambitions than than than than just staying with 1 on 1 stuff.

Andrew Lowen:

Right.

Eric:

And I made that I I've kind of always sort of known that, but I just realized I was like I was like, that's why I kind of seek those people out because they I've I've, I guess, subconsciously realized that they need Yep. They they they have that need. Right. Anyways, it it's it's it's not really a need per se. You're not, like, starving or something like that.

Andrew Lowen:

Well, yeah. But it's it's this whatever. Qualification.

Eric:

It's a prequalification. I've just we kinda made that made that

Andrew Lowen:

So there's this there's an opportunity in marketing. It's a I d a. It's attention, interest, desire, action. So it attend so and you can, pay money to go to places and advertise your business that will advertise the customers at each of those 4 steps. And the the further along you get, you know, attention is like a billboard along the freeway.

Andrew Lowen:

You're gonna get 1,000 and tens of thousands of people maybe every day that that drive right past it. That per view is gonna cost a lot less than, you know, paying on Google. You know, if you had to pay for, like, mesothelioma attorney in Los Angeles, you're gonna pay $500 a click, for like, a click. Imagine paying $500 a car on your freeway or whatever. Right?

Andrew Lowen:

So Mhmm. Anyway, the more expensive, things are toward the end when somebody already knows that they they have a desire, desire has been fostered, they're just looking for the person to take action or the place to take action. You know? On Google, I deal with Google all the time. One of the most common examples that I'll use are when somebody types in Nike shoes, they might be interested in, you know, the best price Air Jordan for that year, and they may be very interested in buying, but probably not.

Andrew Lowen:

They're probably just, you know, they might go buy the next day a pair of Adidas, you know. They might not buy shoes at all for the next, you know, 6 months. But when somebody types in, as I mentioned before, the best price Air Jordan 2020 fours, that person has, like, their credit card out in their hand typing with one finger or whatever on the other hand waiting for the very first sight

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

That has the shoe. You know, they might look for a coupon or something like that, but they're buying that shoe today. You know? And so the same type of qualification is what you're talking about where, you know, you might have somebody that was you know, everybody's involved in their little circles, but we're all cyborgs. We all have this cell phone that that we are attached to, and, it it gives us information.

Andrew Lowen:

You know? It's like our our real brain is right there. And, so when when somebody's like, ah, I'm just so passionate about this thing. They have a friend like, have you thought about, like, starting a podcast? And instantly they're like, oh, I could do that.

Andrew Lowen:

And

Eric:

what

Andrew Lowen:

do they Google? How to start a podcast or podcast, you know, or whatever whatever it is. So the search coming out on Google might be how to start a podcast, or, you know, what resources do I need to start a podcast, or what, you know, are the best podcast, like general practices for 2024, 2025, you know, or coming into the new year. And that's kind of how it comes out on Google. Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

So if you happen to be the best match for that search, you're gonna get lots of passionately motivated and interested people to talk to you about and that that know that they need a podcast.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

They just don't know how to do the thing. Maybe they don't have time, or they are just interested in getting some questions, like burning questions answered. Those are the people that you can sell to those people all day long, and it won't ever feel like selling because they already are interested in buying. They're just maybe trying to see if you're the right fit for what it is that they do. And when you as a business owner, like, if you've ever been in the situation of like, I have no money and all the time, and I just wanna do work, it it it's a little bit more of a desperate selling situation where you're just trying to like be all things to all people.

Andrew Lowen:

But then when you start to become a little more established, you start to like decide what you're good at. You know, for me, like I would at the at in 2012, 2013, like, someone asked me like, hey, do you do Google marketing? I'm like, I I do today, you know?

Eric:

And I started selling on yeah. Exactly. And then after

Andrew Lowen:

a while, it's like, well, what am I really good at? You know? And I, at the time, did website design and SEO marketing and, you know, any kind of ads on Facebook or Google or Amazon or whatever. I did email marketing. I did cons consulting for different, you know, types of, businesses.

Andrew Lowen:

It's like, what do I really like doing? What do I wanna become really good at? And it's like, I I niche myself down into like, I will get more phone calls, or I will get more targeted traffic to fill out contact forms for you, or I will sell products on your website. If they're in very particular industries, you know, I like to do some things more than others. I can sell, you know, it's it's like I said, most of what it is that you sell is is the same because people are the same.

Andrew Lowen:

That's that's really what the the core is. Like when somebody is driven by need, where do they go? What do I say to them? And how do I how do I, find them? Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Right? And those are the 3 questions I need to to have answered. Who are they? Where do they go? And and how and what do I say when I find them?

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. If I can answer those three questions, then I can sell stuff to Mhmm. To your target market. Mhmm.

Eric:

You know? So Yeah. I I I think I would imagine, like, a lot of people are even you know, I I think that can take a long time to even figure that out sometimes as well too. Even like, it's I imagine, you know, more veteran businesses have been around for a while probably already already already know that. But what what about do you have do you have steps for somebody who's maybe they they haven't quite figured figured that out where they're like, you early on, it sounded like, you know, you were you were sounds like you were a very much, an action taker and figured out later Yeah.

Eric:

Kinda kinda person where it was like Experience. Where where it was like, yeah. Of course, I do Google Ads. Do I do Google Ads? Yep.

Eric:

You know that? I could see you searching, like, immediately after

Crystal:

do it doesn't mean you should do it. Right. Well, right. To a point that you level up.

Eric:

Yep. Right. And and and so I imagine that there's other people that are kind of, like, you know, maybe they're they're committed to what they what they what their business is, but maybe they haven't quite figured out who's what specific people that they are looking to work with. Yeah. What kind of questions would they maybe ask themselves

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah.

Eric:

To kind of figure that out?

Andrew Lowen:

A lot of the time when somebody starts a business, it's because they had an experience that they very much valued. And as a customer of, you know, in in some cases, it's like, I wanna make money. It's 2024. I'm gonna go to a trade school and become an electrician. And then you get taught the trade of being an electrician and decide to go out on your own.

Andrew Lowen:

That may be a different thing where it's like, I have this skill, and now I need to start a business to make money with the skill because, you know, I I mean, everybody's motivated by mortgages and and all that. Right? Mhmm. But when but but oftentimes, and I would I would wager this as the case for you, Crystal, because this is such a powerful business. I mean, Jenny Harkleroad, who we both know, had a gnarly experience of breaking her back and and and whatnot.

Andrew Lowen:

And then eventually she found, like, what I think is called Psi k or, you know She she creates like something different. She had

Crystal:

experienced that. And then she also met with doctor Warren, and then they kind of created the process, that I teach and train because

Andrew Lowen:

That's awesome.

Crystal:

She wanted to be able to to get it out in her own way, and that other form didn't really want her to share it with the world. So Yeah. Yeah. That that catalyst breaking her back on a mountain did create the process that I teach and train. So, actually, in my book, I my foreword is written to her because had she not broken her back, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing.

Andrew Lowen:

Wow. Yeah.

Crystal:

And and the day that I first tried what she did, I knew that that was my passion and my calling. Yep. So yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

So so oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

Crystal:

Well, I kind of wanna I'm hearing you say it almost kinda ties into b and I a little bit from some training that we did recently. And they said, like, yes. It's great to try to sell to the whole group, but there's really 20 to 30% of the people that are in your group that are really your target.

Andrew Lowen:

Oh, yeah.

Crystal:

And so what I'm kind of hearing you say is, like, yes, anyone might be your audience, but there's really probably 20 or 30% of people that have the prequalifications that if you focus on that 20, 30% to sell to, then you're not gonna spin your wheels and waste your time and maybe be as demotivated as if you get rejected and shut down and Yeah. From the other, you know, 70, 80% of the people that maybe isn't your correct audience.

Andrew Lowen:

So That's that's very true. It's, something that oftentimes let's say, like, I'm making someone up that I I don't I'm not actually thinking of a person, but so let's say we have a very wealthy person Mhmm. That has, their their house is immaculate. It's beautiful. It's on, let's say, in Rancho Santa Fe on, like, 5 acres, and everything is like hedges trimmed and everything like that.

Crystal:

What a wonderful hypothetical.

Andrew Lowen:

Yes. Yeah. So that'll be me one day. You know? So I don't know about Rancho Santa Fe.

Andrew Lowen:

We'll see.

Eric:

You know? You'll move back. I don't know.

Crystal:

He's not manifest.

Andrew Lowen:

I'll I'll just have like another house there and you know? But so that person that has those beautifully trimmed hedges probably has a gardener or or a a company that they pay a lot of money for that. Right? That person may also be driving around in a beater of a car, like a a car that is not you would expect a person that has a house like that to also drive a Ferrari or like a nice BMW or some other thing like that. And oftentimes, you see people that just have a beat up truck that will drive into a really nice house.

Andrew Lowen:

And it is it it is a sign of what it is that they value. They value their their yard looking beautiful. Maybe they have the grandkids and whatever that come over, and that's like who they're doing that for. And so they place a lot of value there. But what you don't do to a person like that is try to sell them a really nice car because they don't see a lot of value in it.

Andrew Lowen:

If they drive a beat up car, it's because and they'll say, oh, that's too much money. But that person might have like $1,000,000,000 in their bank account. Who knows? And, yet that person will still feel like, you know, a $100,000 for a car is a lot of money. So what you wanna do is you wanna try to sell to somebody that has, that has a high high perceived value for your service.

Andrew Lowen:

So if, for example, Eric, we're talking about somebody that's very passionate, but, has a real problem trusting people. And so, like, I'm gonna yeah. I'll alright. I'll do my podcast. It'll be a monthly podcast.

Andrew Lowen:

I'm gonna have a million questions for you every single month and, you know, back and forth emails. I'm gonna make sure, oh, you messed up my podcast. This thing, like, it, they, they they obviously wouldn't be a good client for you, but oftentimes before you even sign them, you can suss out what they value.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Right? And there's certain, certain clients I've

Eric:

taken I I found even even monthly, that's a red flag for me actually because you oftentimes, not always, there are rare exceptions, but, oftentimes, the reason I always I ask, like, what what what what's the reason? Like, oh, I don't have enough time. It's like, well, okay. You're not fully committed into doing it. I know I already know someone like that is gonna stop their podcast after after 1

Andrew Lowen:

or 2 months. Yeah.

Eric:

And so and it won't it won't be good be good for that person. I have talked to those people, so that that's a red automatically right there.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. So there there are these these red flags that we kind of, are able to tell. One like, the easiest example. So I remember one time I was standing in front of a Brazilian jiu jitsu world champion. I just, I had a really excellent experience with him rolling with him, and and we had a good, I'm a Brazilian jiu jitsu black belt for those who might not know.

Crystal:

Good grappling.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. But this guy is a world champion. Like, this this guy is is better than me. And, so we had a really great experience. I escaped his world famous move, and then he, tapped me with something else.

Andrew Lowen:

So, you know, we we had a a good time. I actually scored some points on him, and then he destroyed me. And then afterward, we're we're talking, and he has a new so he's won the world championships and has a very famous name. And he's, you know, he's an American guy and and whatnot, which is rare for an American to win a Brazilian, you know, sport championship. And, he we were talking about him starting his own gyms, his own academy, his own like brand of academies.

Andrew Lowen:

And I'm like, I I actually do the marketing for the gym that we're grappling at.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

And he it has, you know, 250 students, and I was able to share that with him. And the guy that brought him was the owner of that gym, so I had all the ins. Right? And the guy's starting his academy and whatnot. And so I'm like, yeah, man, I'd love to And I think there's nothing wrong with this.

Andrew Lowen:

I would love to do the marketing for you because it is so cool that I get to meet you and whatever. I'd love to work for you. And he immediately was like, well, you know, I mean, I have, like, I have, like, marketing guy and this and that. And it's like he's being very vague about the marketing guys. You know, if he was like, oh, I've got

Eric:

a web guy. I've got a I've got

Andrew Lowen:

a marketing guy that does my ads, and I've got someone that does my social media and that kind of thing. Like, okay. No problem. You you've got your team. That's that's right.

Andrew Lowen:

But he was like, oh, you know, I've got, like, I've got marketing, handled. It's like you didn't have a website. You didn't have anything. You know? It's like so what he's kind of fronting to me is that he he he has that need met.

Andrew Lowen:

But in actuality, he might really be thinking, I don't trust you enough. Mhmm. You know? And so how do you argue with that? Like, how do you that's one of the shortcuts people take in their mind is I don't trust what you're saying is true.

Andrew Lowen:

How do you argue with that? Maybe like, oh, Crystal, yeah. I mean, I'd love to do the thing, but my wife, I have to, like, talk with her. We have to look at the budget, whatever. It might just simply be, I don't trust what you're saying is gonna work.

Andrew Lowen:

I don't I don't believe you. And that is a shortcut that they took in their brain. It's not rational. It's it's it's but it's justified with logic because, oh, I must talk with my wife about this, and I must and if you just start knocking on those objections, like, let's call your wife now. Let's call your wife right now.

Andrew Lowen:

And then, you know, call her and she's like, oh, it's fine. You can do whatever you want, honey. You know, we have plenty of money in the bank and that kind of thing. And you just start

Eric:

They're probably secretly hoping, like, say no.

Andrew Lowen:

Say no. Say no. So you really when you really start stripping the objections, people start getting angry and mean and and and that kind of thing. And, eventually, it's just like, I don't want to buy your your service.

Crystal:

Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

They don't want to

Crystal:

that resistance that it's just gonna build. But you can feel the state of flow when someone's like, yes, Andrew. Thank you. This is exactly what I needed.

Andrew Lowen:

Exactly. I've had the experience where I have, picking up my phone and taken someone's credit card for the very first time. I met them when I picked up their call, and I said, hello. This is Andrew with Next Level Web. How can I help you?

Andrew Lowen:

And then by the end of the call, I had their credit card number punched into my virtual terminal for monthly services because they just needed, and I was able to meet the need, explain what was wrong, explain how to fix it, and and say, this is what we charge to fix that. And they were like, alright. I'm in. That's it. You know?

Andrew Lowen:

You you were able to explain my need better than I understood it myself. I'm in. And then there are other people that I remember I remember this one time. I was sitting in front of a guy who's like a CPA that's in the local area, and he had a check written out with my name on it and also signed. And it was in his hand, like, on the table.

Andrew Lowen:

And I remember sitting and talking with him for 4 hours, and he, like, slid it forward. And then we would keep talking, and his hand was always on that check. And then he, like, pulled it back. And this happened, like, several times during the meeting. It was like, Kim doing this mental, like, should I give this money to them so they can do the thing?

Andrew Lowen:

We ended up not getting the check. And we spent like, oh, we had to have spent at least 5 hours with this guy. At the end of the day, me and at the time, my SEO marketing manager, his name is Blake, and this was in like 2014, 2015. And, yeah, 2015. So we spent, like, 5 hours with this person.

Andrew Lowen:

We solved several of their problems with them in front of them on the computer. They were like, let's let's, test your your programming kung fu, you know, and and whatever. And we were just able to resolve all their problems there, and, we shouldn't have done that because we didn't get paid for it. It was the worst. So

Crystal:

Did they ever come back?

Andrew Lowen:

Nope. Nope. And I saw they were like we were right next door to them. My office was like, I would walk to like Chipotle in downtown Vista, and I would walk by them and see them at their desk every day and be like, it was rather resentful because I worked so hard to earn that person's small, small check, and they ended up, deciding not to move forward. And looking behind, that is not necessarily a mark of negativity that I should hold in resentment against that person.

Andrew Lowen:

I was talking to the wrong person the whole time. I should have spent 5 hours talking to the right people, And I just needed to simply identify, who the right people were. And I, found as upon reflection of that particular situation, I didn't listen to my gut. I just didn't I was just like, you know what? This guy said he's going to do it.

Andrew Lowen:

You know, he's gonna pay us. He wants our services and wants to have a meeting and everything like that. All the feelings were wrong. All the alarm bells were wrong. Didn't trust the guy in my subconscious was saying

Crystal:

no. Groundhole.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. And I was like, you know what?

Crystal:

Not fitting.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. So it was like, how do I, you just have to listen to your intuition. It is telling you things that are that are accurate, you know. If, you feel danger, you know, you should, you should listen. Right?

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. And so, I think that sometimes, especially in very civilized society, we learn to ignore those things.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

And you get into a more primal situation, you should have, you will have, you will make it much further if you trust your gut, you know? And in marketing and business, it's the same, you know? You're often in primal situations where it's like, am I going to succeed, or not? It's often based on what you say no to. Right?

Eric:

Mhmm. I think Before. Well, I think that's also what you're in was also very kind of hard situation to actually say no to because the guy's like it's not like someone is just talking about sort of sort of certain things. I've come across those people too where it's like, oh, yeah. They wanna, you know, start a podcast or they wanna record something or whatever.

Eric:

And then and they keep kinda telling me about that, but then they, like, never take that kind of first step no matter what. Like, there's always some excuse or something like that. And so I I I've gotten better myself at kind of identifying those people, but I feel like that situation. I've never been in a situation like that where the guy literally has a check on the It's like

Andrew Lowen:

Sliding back.

Eric:

I know. It's kind of just like, I almost wanna reach out. I'm like, just give me that.

Crystal:

Oh, no. It's like a logical warfare. Right?

Eric:

I know. Like, that's almost like, how do you say no to a situation like that, like, taunting, like, at that point? Like, what a taunt? Like, yeah.

Crystal:

The lesson was, like, that he was already sold before the meeting that something happened. Like you said, that

Andrew Lowen:

that's I think in the end, I talked too much to, you know, I you can you can talk yourself right out of a sale, you know, if you if you talk so much. You know? The the key is, in fact, my first sales coach, excellent, excellent sales coach, his name is Dan Bo, and I interviewed him a couple of times on my podcast. He told me, and this was so impactful, that whenever you have something really cool to say about your service, shut up. Think about it and turn it into a question.

Andrew Lowen:

You know? So, like, Eric, what is something really cool about your particular service? I'm a client

Eric:

of yours. So, like, you know, I could probably say this,

Andrew Lowen:

but what's your what's a cool thing about your service?

Eric:

Cool thing about that I think, is really cool about about my services. I have tons of automations that I use.

Andrew Lowen:

Okay. And why why do you use automations?

Eric:

Just I use automations because it keeps us actually more accountable and and reliable, I think, for for all of my clients. Okay. And because and and and also and saves time and also, like, for example, like, I use, like, we we've I I try to get away from email as much as I possibly can. People forget to write things in emails. People Yeah.

Eric:

People get it gets lost in spam. Like, email is, like, the the last resort on things where I absolutely have to. We still use email, but, like, we we, and so I I I, I try to get away from that with, like, forms and things like that too because it the forms just simply remind people to, you know, like, when does this episode is supposed to go out, for example. Right? Like, they feed that information to me.

Eric:

And, like, others, if they just send that to me, then I'm, like, going back and forth. When did it go out? Especially if they're hard to get a hold of. Yeah. Then it's, like, days go by.

Eric:

I'm, like, I still just need to know when you want this episode to go out, that sort of thing. Right? So that's why I have all these. So I think that's really cool. But I don't think most people probably don't think that's very cool.

Eric:

They could care

Andrew Lowen:

about it. So so let's let's let's go through this exercise. Let's go through this exercise. So shut up. You think about it.

Andrew Lowen:

Turn into a question. Ask ask me a question. Wouldn't you

Eric:

do you like automations?

Andrew Lowen:

Like, what do you mean? What what are automations? So what about what about, something like so okay. I'm I'm gonna be the I'm gonna we'll we'll role play for a second.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

It's like, okay. I I wanna start a podcast. I'm super passionate about board games, and I'm passionate about, you know, jujitsu. And I just wanna I just feel like my thoughts are bubbling over inside my head. But to use an objection that you gave me earlier, I have no time.

Andrew Lowen:

I just have no time. I just I feel I feel frustrated, because I want these things to happen, but, you know, now now is your opportunity. What would you what would you say?

Eric:

What, So

Andrew Lowen:

Like remember, question. You have to ask me a question based

Eric:

on what you just heard me say. Right now. Yeah. I'd say I guess well, at first, I would I I I actually what do you like about board games is what I would first ask you because I I kind of, like, ask you more like, I wanna see your passion a bit more.

Andrew Lowen:

So then in this role play, I like very heavy, heavy, chonky games that take, like, 8 hours to play. I love the, like, the the thinking that happens and the, negotiation that happens between the players. That's what I like.

Eric:

Okay.

Andrew Lowen:

So then what would you say? Now it must be a question.

Eric:

How, I guess, how do you how do you intend to get that in front of people?

Andrew Lowen:

Oh, I thought about a podcast, but I just don't I don't think I have time for it.

Eric:

Why don't you think you have time for

Andrew Lowen:

it? I just am so busy. I have so many things to do. I have so many games that need playing. It's like, how can I how can I, you know, where I don't know where the time will come from?

Eric:

What if, what if what if I could free up your time?

Andrew Lowen:

What do you mean?

Eric:

What if I could, help you create time for us? See, this this is tough. I'm not used to doing this.

Andrew Lowen:

See, this isn't an organic conversation with a natural person, but if if but yeah. No. But this is What would you what would you say for Eric?

Crystal:

What if I told you I had a process based system that would help you get your voice out to the world and make more money?

Andrew Lowen:

Oh, that's that's immediately interesting. So and that that would save time. Right? So it's all about how, you know, so if if I'm if I have these needs, you know, so first of all, whoever asked the questions is who controls the power on the conversation. Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Because if I ask you a question about, you know, what

Eric:

if I told you I had this thing that can help you save time and get free up an hour a week so

Andrew Lowen:

you can actually podcast? Then your response to me is not gonna be like, I do like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. You know? You're gonna be right where it's like, we're on topic because I asked you this question, you're gonna respond to me. And so oftentimes, the key to selling to someone is to just understanding what it is that's going on their head, and also in fact, helping them understand what's going on inside their head.

Andrew Lowen:

You know, like when, you know, we have Wes Marshburn in the group who sells, you know, as a tree contractor, he always talks about the only thing that's a guarantee about the the tree is that eventually that that weight's gonna come down. Right? It's gonna fall over one day. And so if I wanted to get my trees trimmed

Eric:

Do do you do you wanna keep your house in one piece? Or do you like or do you want 2 Do you 2 house with an open oh, with an open space? Yeah. Yeah. Open floor plan.

Eric:

Do you

Andrew Lowen:

want a spontaneous highlight. Yeah. Yeah. So, the idea is, you know, when when you're, when somebody up there is is like, oh, I need, tree service. I just want my trees trimmed, just a few trees trimmed.

Andrew Lowen:

That can often be an excellent referral for Wes even though it's like a few trees trimmed might not be very much money if that was the service that he actually were to provide. But because it's like, oh, I see a need. I there's a clear need, and Wes is like, okay. I'll come out and take a look. And he sees these branches going like this right above the house, and they're old and dead and and whatnot.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. That person has identified that there's something wrong with the trees, and now it's Wes' prerogative to say, did you know?

Eric:

Right? Very, very powerful.

Crystal:

It's so funny you used that word because on Wes' episode, he used the word prerogative. Yeah.

Eric:

Yeah. Alright.

Crystal:

So cute.

Eric:

Very good.

Andrew Lowen:

So I feel like, you know, Wes' energy is in here. Yeah. It is. I'm sitting in his seat. So, so that's kind of the the idea is that the customer's subconscious knows a lot more of what it is that they that they need.

Andrew Lowen:

They just haven't rationalized what that is and why. So if you can ask good questions that will help you understand why, you can decide if you have a need that actually meet or if you have a service that actually meets that need.

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

And, you know, so rather than saying, how can I so there are several types of, you know, I guess, maybe people can use questions in a malicious way by saying, Eric, don't you wish that you had more time?

Eric:

I

Andrew Lowen:

have an idea. If you just did the thing that I want you to do, you would have more time. Right? And that's kinda where I'm going. So I can lead you on purpose toward my service so that you will eventually buy it, which is a a a malicious way to use questions.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. But the way that I'm talking about is, like, I just wanna understand. Like, if there is a referral for me in there, then, you know, that's, that's something that I will figure out with questions, with simple questions. You know? Like, Eric, how's how's business?

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

So I'm asking you. No. It's a role play, but it's my turn to ask you some questions. So how's business?

Eric:

It's it's it's okay.

Andrew Lowen:

Cool. Our podcast is doing pretty well. You have you have all the podcast business you can handle?

Eric:

Mhmm. No. I could handle more.

Andrew Lowen:

Well, how would you get more?

Eric:

By connecting in in BNI and and, building up social networks and things like that online and building up connections.

Andrew Lowen:

Have you do you do people Google, like, podcasting? Like, local people Google podcasting? Or is it like like a natural big what you know, how do I start a podcast? Or do people look for, like, podcast managers in San Diego?

Eric:

Most people I think are are would would be searching for, like, how do I start a podcast? Not searching for specifically a manager.

Andrew Lowen:

Do you have a like, an article on your website that that answers that question?

Eric:

I don't.

Andrew Lowen:

Okay. You should write 1. You should write 1. If you write 1, I can market it for you whenever whenever you do. So and that's that's it.

Andrew Lowen:

That's like I'll I'll I don't you know, you don't need that service yet. Like, you don't need my service. But when the time comes, you're like, this was a good idea that I heard from a friend. Mhmm. We're gonna, we're gonna write this article.

Andrew Lowen:

Amber, write these articles. You know? Like, how do I start a podcast? Let's do, like, a little hub on the website for how to start a podcast. It's like when it comes time to actually market that thing, you know, you might remember me.

Andrew Lowen:

Right? Or maybe you'll say, okay. If I did do the thing Well,

Eric:

it's interesting you said article because I have I've sat down to write articles like that Yeah. Probably, like, 10, 20, 30 times. I don't I've lost count how many times I've sat down to do it and just total Yep. Total mental block.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah.

Eric:

Like, I've not I for some reason, I've not been able been, like, been able to, like Uh-huh. Do it or it's like grinding teeth for some reason. Even though I'm, like, I'm I'm passionate about what I do. I love what I do, but, like, I I don't know what it was.

Crystal:

You don't like For

Eric:

some reason know.

Crystal:

So maybe they

Eric:

Maybe that's it. Yeah. There's I think that's I probably have some kind of subconscious block that's, like, suddenly just like, nope. You're not doing this. And I'm just like, oh my gosh.

Eric:

Like, why? Because I because I I I would need to have articles like that, but those have been so hard for me to for some something's been blocking you with that. Yeah. I gotcha. Yeah.

Crystal:

But I think what you're saying essentially is let them figure out that you're the right

Eric:

solution by asking them

Crystal:

the right questions. So it's their decision. Right. So they're the one buying in instead of you trying to get them to buy in.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Yeah. And also not being veiled. It's like when when I know that I could be a potential service a good service provider for you, I'll say, I think I can help you with that. You know?

Andrew Lowen:

And, again, the concept of help is highly valued. It's like, maybe we'll talk at some point down the road, you know? And, so the idea behind marketing So you asked the question that was really good is like, how do I maybe it was like, how do I know if or who my target market is? You know? A lot of people don't understand who their people are.

Eric:

Yeah. Like, what what's a question to ask? So ask like, like, they're they're searching. Like, they're they're maybe they're extremely vague in their in their,

Andrew Lowen:

in their pricing. Anyone, that, or everything.

Eric:

Right. Right. Right. But but so some to kind of niche down into into their market. What kind of questions should they be asking themselves?

Andrew Lowen:

So well, there there are some, the the first with with a service based business, it's it's rather can be rather simple. So product based businesses are one thing and service based businesses are another. Mhmm. They both have simple answers to this question. Product based business, oftentimes, the most meaningful target market are people like me.

Andrew Lowen:

Because if I'm selling a thing or I'm making a thing, there's a reason that I made it. Right? Mhmm. And, so what and this can also work for services as well. Like, for example, Crystal, why did this impact you personally?

Andrew Lowen:

What made you personally desire to, pursue this and and be balanced and whatnot? Right? And so then you can put yourself in the mind of your own customer because you were your own customer. Mhmm. It's like, what was I looking for?

Andrew Lowen:

What was what happened to me? What made me desire to do this? That will help you a lot. So people like me is oftentimes the most simple answer that is effective. You just have to decide you have to have somebody else kinda draw or maybe spend some time drawing out of yourself what that why did I, you know, why do I make this board game?

Andrew Lowen:

Why did I need this board game to exist? And whatnot, you know, I make board games. So the, the the answers to that question are the initial who is my target market? I'm looking for people like me. And trying to define myself on a piece of paper can be difficult, but oftentimes, you know, let's say I'm like, I'm 39 years old.

Andrew Lowen:

I'm a father of 7. There are there are probably not that many 39 year old father of sevens that are into board games. You know, at least the target for that is probably rather a small group of of people, of elites. Mhmm. So but, yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

So what what else? You know, it's it's not the 7 kids probably, but I quit video games and I was looking for an outlet. You know? I'm looking to compartmentalize the time that I used to spend 8 hours on a on a computer playing World of Warcraft. And now I wanna do that in but in, like, 1 hour on the weekend because that's the time that I have, and I wanna keep that in in compartments like, men are from waffles or men are like waffles.

Andrew Lowen:

Women are like spaghetti. You heard have you read that book? Yes. Mhmm. It's it's awesome.

Andrew Lowen:

You you mentioned before this podcast, you mentioned, like, men are good at compartmentalizing. Mhmm. Men are like waffles because waffles each have a little compartment. Oh. The way that they think, you jump from box to box.

Andrew Lowen:

Like, I'm out of the jujitsu box into the board game box. Now I'm into the business box where women are like spaghetti. The thoughts are all blend together because all the noodles touch each other. So one thought seamlessly blends into another, which is why men can never keep up with women in conversation.

Eric:

Or the nothing box when they it's time to go to sleep or whatever.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Or watch TV. Yeah.

Eric:

Or watch TV.

Andrew Lowen:

Yep. I spend a lot of time there. So, but yeah. So people like me, and then the other one would be, people that are motivated by need. It's like, I need plumbing.

Andrew Lowen:

Like, my target I'm a plumber. My target market are people who need plumbing services. Like, I'm a genius. But that is, probably a pretty simple way to to acknowledge the target market. You might not understand much about the person, but this is, you know, it gets a little more complicated for you, Crystal, because you're like, you know, I need people that need balancing services.

Andrew Lowen:

It's like, what does that even mean?

Eric:

I

Andrew Lowen:

don't even know that what balancing services are as like a regular customer. You have to become educated a little bit to understand what that even might mean. So what would be the identifier that's like, I need people that are sick and tired of being sick and tired, or what is the identifier for you?

Crystal:

Anxiety, stress, overwhelm, PTSD.

Andrew Lowen:

Yep. Mhmm. So that's awesome. So that and and over time, what happens is you begin to refine a simple target market Mhmm. Of, like, what was I like, or whatever.

Andrew Lowen:

Specific. Yeah. And then it's like the the the next best thing is to talk to your customers and be like, why why are you seeking out my service? Why you know, people that paid you like, Eric, I can tell you, I you're I'm a client of yours. Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

I wanted to free up hours a week of my employee, Sean, cutting our podcast. Mhmm. And I was like, if I take a a I don't know, like a 10% cut in quality and get, you know, 5 hours a week back, like, I'm down. You know? I'm totally down for that.

Andrew Lowen:

And it was it's I took a 0% cut in quality and got some extra enhancements, and it's been wonderful. But, that's that's all I wanted. I just wanted more time because I didn't have any time. Like, how can I free up time?

Crystal:

Kids. We wonder why.

Eric:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I've done some of this to myself. Yeah.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. So so there's a little bit about, you know, how to discern who your target market is. So over time, you can ask your customer, and you can understand, you know, even people who call you on the phone, you can be like, so, you know, how can I help you? And you have that conversation with them, you know, and initially, you can't even ask, like, what made you you know, after you close the business and do the work and whatnot, you can ask like, well, what made you choose me? And people will tell you, you know, and, it will help refine your understanding of your target market or what the needs were that motivated them and how that translated into somebody Google searching or somebody responding to a post you wrote on LinkedIn.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. So a lot of the time, this is just, you know, so a lot of the time, this is just you understand, like know thyself. What is Who said know thyself? Socrates or Is

Eric:

that true?

Andrew Lowen:

Someone, yeah. Somebody awesome said that. They were probably burned at the stake because it was such a such a an important thing to sell. So, yeah, I I think that, that is really, I guess, the subconscious and everything bubbling up in there. That's some of what, the mind doesn't realize it understands already.

Andrew Lowen:

You know? The business owner understands a lot more than than they think.

Crystal:

It ties back to our topic. Yeah. They they know more about marketing than they realize. They just need to follow that intuition and that gut and Right. Maybe even not some of the societal norms because sometimes people have this vision of what we want, but our vision is different than what they perceive it.

Crystal:

And only us have that full vision, and I try to tell people, listen to yourself instead of other people. And I think that's essentially what you're telling Right. Them is that marketing instinct comes from that subconscious, that intuition, and and to follow that to get themselves to where they need to be.

Andrew Lowen:

Absolutely. And so I have this concept that is, I call it the virtuous well, the castle theory. I have lots of concepts. They're all in my head. But the castle theory is my is my, really the the blueprint of what a successful business that thrives, what their what their marketing system looks like.

Andrew Lowen:

It's, so you've got, like, at the and this is really fits every service based business, especially, but you've got the base of all every business is word-of-mouth. Referrals, people, customers using you again, that sort of thing. So everyone generally that has a stable business has lots of word-of-mouth returning, consistent clients. You know, you've I've been you've been my podcast manager for like 60 episodes now or something like that. Right?

Andrew Lowen:

And so it'll be another 60 and more. And that is an essential part of your business stability, being able to grow, having clients like that, that that stay and use you on a regular basis. People use you each month or, you know, return for multiple sessions. Right?

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

And those people will refer others, you know, over time. And so the word-of-mouth, every single thing that you do, it's like the rock or the foundation of a building. You, build the the foundation on that. Mhmm. So when you whatever you do, if you pay ads, you know, you you sponsor ads on Facebook, you, build a website, you do it, you know, go to a networking group, everything is just so you can get customers that will use you again and again.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. Right? And so you're building that word-of-mouth foundation. Mhmm. So, there's, you know, the big companies like GEICO and Allstate and whatnot, they're constantly trying to pull customers from each other, but they have that stable base of customers that always use them, that is that tell their kids to use them, that sort of thing.

Andrew Lowen:

That's why McDonald's tries to market super hard to kids to get, you know, sell chicken nuggets because, yeah, when they're 45 years old, they're gonna love that 20 piece as much as that. So, we're 39, I guess. But, so the the second, we'll say the very first story of a of a building. You know? Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

We'll do the building analogy. So you got the foundation as word-of-mouth. The first story is strategic relationships. So if referrals work, then let's incentivize strategic partners like you guys to refer to me. Because Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

If you guys refer to me in return, I will refer to you. Right? I will want to refer business to you. If you guys refer business to me, that's kinda how that strategic relationship works. Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

So, you know, I've got plenty of people in our BNI group. That is the absolute best first layer to add to any business. Mhmm. Then beyond that, now I have people that are incentivized to refer to me. So people go to real estate, caravans, they'll go to all sorts of things with relevant people because they're trying to develop those strategic relationships.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. There are a number of ways to do that, not just BNI, but, you can, you know, a lot of mortgage officers will take real estate agents out to lunch and other things like that. They try to get to know people so they like them and trust them and so on. Mhmm. But so after that, after that strategic partner's first story, the second story would be a website.

Andrew Lowen:

The website is what I call the second look. When I meet with someone or when someone is referred to me, they oftentimes will look online for what it is that I, you know, am I rated 5 stars? Am I, you know, what are people saying about me? What services does my company provide? If I don't have a good website, it doesn't answer those questions.

Andrew Lowen:

They might actually not call. So I find that some of the best conversion increase that happens in a business is when you get a really good website, because you don't realize how many people are actually being referred to you that are not calling you. Mhmm. And so you will increase so we we've actually found by designing new websites for old companies, that their conversions can increase up to like 20%. Like the week before, it's 20% less.

Andrew Lowen:

The week after, it's 20% more. It's like a huge increase. So and obviously, that's if you have visitors to the website before and after you can measure that side by side. So, it's a, it's a really incredible, incredible thing. So anyway, after that, you kind of move into what I call these 2 towers or, you know, you have options, which are, like asset development

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Which is like things like your Google ranking and, your number of reviews online. And then you've got, on the other side, you've got paid placement, things like Facebook ads and whatnot. But if you start with Facebook ads or ads on HomeAdvisor, Angie's List, if you're a service like a contractor or whatever, you have a really killer website, but like nobody knows who you are. You're gonna suffer until you get that base, that base of word-of-mouth. Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. So every single thing that we do as business owners needs to be tied back to, how do I get referrals?

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Right? How do I get customers that will use me again? Mhmm. And, so that that engine oftentimes is powered by very external things, like paying a marketing company to run ads on Facebook. Or for me, I live in, like, you know, Google and Facebook are kind of

Eric:

I see. All those things that kinda turn them into, like, a refer Yes. Sort of thing. I see.

Andrew Lowen:

I see. So all you're looking for are those customers. And so for me, I really like to work in or work on Google because if somebody is looking for how to develop a podcast or, you know, how to start a podcast or best general practices for podcasting Mhmm. That I can find somebody that's highly motivated, that's interested. If they get to my website or my client's website, your site, and they read articles, they become they they develop a desire.

Andrew Lowen:

It's like, okay. Now that I have I'm armed with information, then I I'm now ready to do this. Mhmm. I'm just looking for who to pay. Right?

Andrew Lowen:

And so that's that's where you can actually start to develop customers. And so for me, I guess I'm more like a bridge builder. So I've got Mhmm. You've got like you've got the motivated customer here, and you've got the the motivated business owner here. I build the bridge so the customer can will will walk toward them.

Andrew Lowen:

Mhmm. And so Once

Crystal:

your house is not big enough, then you just walk past it.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So, you know, you you may need to to build that foundation larger before you can, you know, you can't build a resort on a one story house foundation.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. So that's a lot of the core of why I love, I love when business owners know enough about marketing, that they're dangerous. Because then they're like, I could do all this myself, but I'm too busy. I'm gonna hire you and expect that you're gonna do a good job. And they know enough that they can tell if I'm doing a bad job or a good job.

Andrew Lowen:

Those are my favorite customers. It's like,

Eric:

you

Andrew Lowen:

know, people that are stabilized and are like, okay, now I've had some experience here. I've hired the family friend. I paid my cousin for nothing. Nothing. You know, they said they'd build me a website, and they didn't or

Eric:

Mhmm.

Andrew Lowen:

Whatever. And I've I've I paid a $1,000 to this digital marketing company that swore they were gonna get me top of Google, or I did the $100 a month thing. Like, none of it worked, and I don't know why. But I just know that I'm not gonna have the wool pulled over my eyes again. Right?

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. These are my favorite customers because, you know, we do a good job. Yeah. See it. So

Eric:

Wow. Well, this was a jam packed episode. Dang. This is this was fantastic. I know we're we're a little we're a little over, but, man, this was like there's been there's a there's a directions I would never have imagined.

Andrew Lowen:

I had fun.

Eric:

Yeah. This was this was You can tell you're seasoned. Oh, yeah. No. I was I was like, man.

Eric:

I didn't you know, it's funny. I've known you were actually the one, I first met with when I first joined Bina. You were you were a visitor host then. Yeah. And so and but I didn't I don't know.

Eric:

I didn't know all, like, all all of this about you, I guess, and such too. It's just this is why I like this kind of platform because you don't really, like, discover these these these I know we've had one to ones, but I don't Yeah. Didn't come out in the same way. It's like a few. So, but, so, Andrew, if if somebody wanted to get in contact with you, which I feel like after listening to this, it's gonna be hard not to.

Eric:

How would they what's the best way for for them

Andrew Lowen:

to do that? You can just go to next level web dotcom. You can go to so my email is andrew@nextlevelweb.com. If you wanna send me an email, but, yeah, go to our go to our website, check out our services. You've got our phone number there.

Andrew Lowen:

You can give it a call. Mhmm. And You'll

Crystal:

know when you get there.

Andrew Lowen:

Yeah. That's right. That's right. And then tell them you listen to this b and I podcast, and and we can start from, instead of square 1, we start from, like, square 2.

Eric:

Yeah. You're already up to there. Yeah. Exactly. Foundation's there.

Eric:

So wow. Well, thank you so much, Andrew. So if you got a lot of value out of this episode, if you know someone who's maybe kind of struggling with marketing or struggling with, you know, finding those those those pain points and asking questions and whatnot, this would be a spectacular episode to, send send to them. And this is one of the, best ways. You've talked about referral stuff and whatnot.

Eric:

It's one of the best ways to actually grow this podcast is built by building fans for this podcast. And so and, yeah. So thank you so much, Andrew.

Andrew Lowen:

My pleasure.

Eric:

And, alright. We'll, see you in the next episode.

Crystal:

See you next time. Don't forget to log your single CEU. Thank you for joining us for the Business Boost Hour. My name is Crystal Pravette and this is Eric Buells. Thank you for joining us and don't forget to document your single CEU.

Crystal:

See you next time.

Eric:

See you in the next episode.

Creators and Guests

Crystal Privett
Host
Crystal Privett
Owner of Mindset Services & Mind Reprogramming Coach
LinkedIn Website Link
Eric Beels
Host
Eric Beels
Podcaster, Podcaster Manager, Technical Director. Truth advocate and free-speech supporter. Analyst and systems guy. Our God-Given verse: Acts 1:7-8
X Website Link
Amber Beels
Producer
Amber Beels
Creative Director at DifMix Productions | Producer for Business Boost Hour
Website Link
Melissa Velazquez
Editor
Melissa Velazquez
Lead Podcast Editor at DifMix Productions
14. Crowdfunding Success: From EMT to Marketing Maven

headphones Listen Anywhere

More Options »
Broadcast by