9. Leadership Lessons from the Battlefield to Business
What does it take to be a leader? How does it affect our businesses? Is? In this episode, we speak with Jason Kulinski discussing the topic of leadership. Hello, everyone.
Eric:Welcome to the Business Boost Hour podcast. My name is Eric Beals, and I'm the vice president of b and I Escondido.
Crystal:And my name is Crystal Privett, president of BNI Escondido, and this is the single CEU podcast. Today, we have Jason Kolinski.
Eric:Say hi, Jason.
Jason Kulinski:Hey, guys.
Eric:Hi. Great to be here.
Crystal:It's great to have you.
Eric:So, Jason, why don't you first just introduce yourself and just kinda so we get an so the audience gets an understanding of just who you are and what you do. Let's just start off there.
Jason Kulinski:Alright. So Jason Kalinski, owner of HomeTeam Inspection Service of North San Diego County. Was in the marine for 16 years, then bought a business, franchise. So we have 200 locations nationwide, and we opened in 2020, which was not the time to open a business. So,
Crystal:yeah. Well, thank you for your service, first of all, and, obviously, you're doing something right if you're still standing here.
Eric:I wonder how many businesses opened in 2020 and maybe and and and or or right before 2020
Crystal:Yeah.
Eric:And didn't, like, really succeed. I remember it. So there there's a there's there's a, a ramen place that I'm a big fan of. They opened in 2019, like, October or something like that. Right before time.
Crystal:Yeah.
Eric:Yeah. And so but they survived. And so I was very grateful because I was a phenomenal place. But, yeah. So today, we wanted to talk about leadership.
Eric:So, Jason, this one came from you. What what about leadership exactly did you kind of wanna talk? Why did that topic come to mind for you?
Jason Kulinski:Well, being a marine, it's definitely top of mind at all times, along with where we started our business in 2020. If didn't have the, really, leadership of myself, that self drive, we would not have made it. So it's kind of near and dear.
Crystal:So do you define leadership as self discipline then?
Jason Kulinski:That, along with looking at what you can do around the community and to your clients even because I have to lead my clients through the biggest purchase of their lives, really. Just yesterday, I had, a client that they have purchased houses before, but there was always brand new builds. This time, they're buying a 44 year old house. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:They saw a lot of issues that they never seen before.
Crystal:Different beast. Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. So walking them through that process takes takes leadership of Mhmm. Hey. This isn't as big of an issue that you think it is. Yes.
Jason Kulinski:It's gonna cost some money, but you're thinking it's gonna fall down. No. It's not falling down.
Eric:So you're okay. It's very interesting. So so you're so when I think of leadership, I'm usually thinking of, like, you know, leading your employees and leading you know, and that's obviously, that's part of it. But you're you're applying that actually towards your clients as well, or at least, I guess in your case, I guess it's like your client's clients, I guess. Right?
Eric:Because you're it's the homebuyers or the homeowners or whoever's buying or selling a place. And so so you're talking about kind of like guiding them effectively and making sure that they're that, what's what whatever's, gonna be the right buying decision or making awareness of these things. That makes sense?
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. So it's also guiding your partners. So my partners are real estate agents. Mhmm. We partner with them, like and my clients are their their clients.
Eric:Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:So partnering with them, guiding just, what, earlier this week, last week, I had I had one of my agents call. Hey. I need your help. A different inspector did did an inspection on one of my listings. He called out x, y, and z.
Jason Kulinski:Can you walk me through why he called this out? Walk them through it. This is how you could correct it, and I'm waiting to hear back on what the final thing happened. So we'll see what happens with that, but helped her out in that situation.
Crystal:So communication's also a big part of leadership
Jason Kulinski:Mhmm.
Crystal:Because you're having to communicate with your clients, keeping, everyone on the same page, especially with you when when you you're kind of in the middle of the situation. What other do what other characteristics do you think define a leader?
Jason Kulinski:The one that no one wants to do, taking responsibility.
Crystal:Oh, good one.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. This example, couple years ago, I had to take responsibility on something that I not so much really missed. It was I could test a system 2 different ways because it was right on a threshold of a temperature. I only tested it in one mode. I didn't test it in another mode.
Jason Kulinski:It worked in one mode, so I called it good. Should have tested it in the other mode, but didn't have to because of how it worked. Well, client moved in. It didn't work. HVAC company said, hey.
Jason Kulinski:No. It doesn't work. You know, this is x, y, and z. Home warranty company said, no, that we're not covering it. Had to teach the home warranty company why and how this system works and why I only tested in this mode because it was not it was under a certain temperature.
Jason Kulinski:Ultimately, they did a partial coverage, but I refunded that money because it's, hey. I didn't test it. So I refunded the inspection fee. Mhmm. So the client was happy that I helped him and that he got this money back.
Jason Kulinski:I took that responsibility. I should have done both modes.
Eric:Mhmm.
Crystal:Yeah. Not always the fun part of business is taking the responsibility and accountability, but we spoke with Adam Hamill, and he said how sometimes a bad review can lead him to a really great client because you can turn that around. And, you know, oftentimes in business, there's going to be hiccups or, things that we have to communicate through, but it's how we respond to the situation. So it sounds like you were able to use that leadership and communication to effectively, like, push through that and make sure everyone was happy. Yeah.
Eric:Well yes. And and, you know, what's interesting on, like, oftentimes, you know, like maybe some, a company's boss might consider them a leader. But if they're constantly, like, you know, blaming the employees for everything, it's like, oh, no, I didn't do that. You did that. You screwed that up or whatever it is.
Eric:Even though maybe they were the ones that hired them in the 1st place and maybe they weren't the right fit or maybe they trained them wrong or whatever it is. It's, you know, whatever it is. But they're not taking that kind of that ownership responsibility necessarily. Like, you know, the word leadership, the first word on this lead. Well, leading if you're not in front
Crystal:Yep.
Eric:You're not leading. Right? And so so you you you have to be that that that that first person that's gonna essentially take the blame and then kind of, you know, they're gonna be the ones to kind of resolve it and and get it get it fixed or whatever it might be. And so I think that's a really important thing to remember if you want to be a good leader is is, you know, you you're also taking the responsibility and not putting the blame on everybody else. So I think maybe a lot of people might be inclined to do.
Crystal:That's a great point too because sometimes in business and entrepreneurship, there's like gaps where maybe it's not your job or maybe it's not the other person's job, but then somebody has to do it. So that accountability or that responsibility that you like, take the responsibility on your own because it's a gap if if someone needs to do it. So that that's an interesting aspect too. It's if there's a part of business where you are a leader, it's not your role, but you still step up. That that probably happens to you quite a bit.
Jason Kulinski:Oh, yeah. We're basically I'm one man show right now. I made some hires, and they just didn't work out.
Crystal:Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:So one man show. I have to cover everything. So, yeah, it absolutely happens all the time.
Eric:Yeah. Well, you're taking that that that the ownership over your your your business. I mean, I could, you know, someone could easily like, oh, you know, the the no one's working out for me or whatever it is. Like, they all blame putting the blame on everyone else. In your case, it sounds like you just maybe haven't found the right person.
Eric:Right? So and, you know, I think that's it can be tricky, I think, to find the right person for your business and, in whatever whatever roles that might that might be, but you're taking that ownership to find the right person to kind of train them or and that's willing to put in the the work and and effort. They're not, you know, then then you're also taking that ownership to be like, hey. It's not work not working out, whatever it might be. Right?
Eric:I know leaders the leadership is something that I've kinda had to learn because that's not that's never really been my kind of, I'm more of like a engineer kind of type of person. I wanna kinda get into, like, the real nitty, like, deep fine detailed stuff. And it's still sometimes it's like my kryptonite a little bit where, like, I'll spend so much time on something and then, like, you know, I'll spend 6 hours on something and feel like I wasted my day, basically. And because it's it's things I necessarily shouldn't really be doing, but sometimes I enjoy doing them. But I'm like, okay, I need to kind of balance this.
Eric:And because where I'm at currently, I don't I'm I don't I'm don't feel like I'm able to do put that much time into those very specific things when my time could be used more effectively. So a lot of this, I think, is, you know, proper time management, I think, in in leadership.
Jason Kulinski:Delegation.
Eric:Yeah. Delegation. Yeah. That's been my biggest learning curve is delegation. Like, that was the biggest thing for me.
Eric:And this was, like, the biggest weight off my shoulders is when I stopped actually doing most of the grunt work editing. Like, I do video production and podcasting. I do. I haven't edit actually edited a podcast myself in, like, at least a year. And so it's because I've had to delegate to Amber or my editor, Melissa.
Eric:And and so that was, like, the biggest, like, letting that kinda go and just, like, kind of trusting that they'll get it done. That was, like, the hardest thing to do. But once I did, oh my gosh. It was such a weight lifted off my shoulders, so then I I can spend my time more effectively on the business growth or whatever systems or whatever whatever it
Jason Kulinski:might be. Yeah. It opens it. It opens you up for, whatever you need to do to further what you're trying to accomplish in business. So by doing delegation or hiring the right people, you can actually grow it to hire even more people.
Jason Kulinski:Mhmm.
Crystal:And that's what's really cool about BNI too is we don't necessarily have to have all these people employed for us to have access to these great people.
Jason Kulinski:Oh, yeah.
Crystal:It's not like you have to have Mark Gleason on your team to to be able to, you know, get the right payroll. So there's certain people in our group that actually work as part of our team, but, necessarily, we don't have to, like, do any paperwork for them.
Eric:Well, right. Yeah. And and, you know, it's like what what's, what b and I teaches is essentially everyone in in your b and I group is essentially like a like your Salesforce. Right? And so a part of this is really learning how to how do you, lead them maybe in, like, a bit of a smaller way because they're not hyper integrated into your business.
Eric:Right? But how do you lead them into, I I guess, being a better salesperson for your business to be able to refer you better, a better refer, I guess, maybe is more the right terminology, not so much salesperson, but but refer better refer.
Crystal:Kind of reminds me of your military. There's different levels of leadership just like in the military. So there's there's some people who at the very top have the most responsibility, but then it trickles down. So there's different levels like you're saying, where you interact with, like, one client versus someone that you're interacting with, like, on a weekly basis.
Jason Kulinski:Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at one point, when I was in, I had, I don't know, a 120 marines under under my charge.
Jason Kulinski:Mhmm. Like, I was responsible for around a 120 people on a daily basis. So it
Crystal:Different level. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric:And so what was what was that like when you were kind of, you know, managing a 120 people? I can't even comprehend managing a 120 20 people. I I guess, in me, like,
Crystal:2 people. Stakes here. So it's different than managing a restaurant with a 120
Jason Kulinski:people. Yeah. Luck luckily, that was in Okinawa, so it was a little bit different. Like, it it wasn't in combat. So I had a good team around me.
Jason Kulinski:So it's all about a team just like in BNI. We have a great team in BNI in our in our group. So if you have a good team, like, I had great corporals. I was a sergeant at the time. I had a couple other sergeants with me, but I was I was the top top one.
Jason Kulinski:I had a couple staff above me, but they didn't do anything. Like, they left they let me handle it. Here. It's yours. Take it.
Jason Kulinski:So I ran in with it. They just let me do it. And every now and then, they're like, hey. Can I do this? They would ask me, hey.
Jason Kulinski:Can I do this? Because I was the one that took everything. Mhmm. So
Eric:Real quick.
Crystal:Can we pause? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Check
Eric:on it. Did they get out of time? That happened one time before last time we recorded. I guess their cage broke, I guess. She puts them in, and then they get to the door, then they start barking, basically.
Eric:Mhmm. So
Jason Kulinski:They did get out.
Eric:Left off. Okay. We left off on the, the, the the the, managing the military people.
Jason Kulinski:Oh, I got a crank in my neck. I've had it for a couple days. Sucks.
Eric:Gotta go see doctor Ray maybe or something.
Jason Kulinski:I know. I've I've been meaning to set up an appointment with him.
Eric:They can clear that up.
Jason Kulinski:Alright. I don't know. Like like, yeah. His is different, but, like, I had I've been chiropractors and massage therapists, and it's just, like, one of those, like, I don't I don't like them. Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:Because I always feel like they're excuse me. It's worse afterwards? Like,
Eric:I haven't experienced that. No.
Jason Kulinski:Like, I'm always sore afterwards, so I don't know. It's weird. Like, it feels like I'm worse afterwards. And next, like, 2 weeks later, it's right back, and I have to go back. And it's like, no.
Jason Kulinski:This is just getting it's just repeating cycles.
Eric:Yeah. Anyhow.
Crystal:One time, I couldn't get off of the couch, and I had to belly dance 2 days later, and doctor Ray had me off. I was not moving quite as fluid as I normally would, but I somehow did it. It was crazy.
Eric:Ready? So in in the military, when you're managing those 120 120, people underneath you, how how did I would imagine a lot of people, like, conflicts. I mean, that would that would come up. How would you were you the one that kind of help handle that kind of stuff? How would you kind of Yeah.
Eric:Handle those those sorts of things?
Jason Kulinski:I mean, it's the marine corps, so it's a very we're a unique
Eric:branch. We'll put it that way. Okay.
Jason Kulinski:So there there was a couple different ways for conflict resolution or if someone did something that they weren't supposed to. One was counseling, like, just written, hey. This you did this. You weren't supposed to. This is basically, it's a warning or you need to do x, y, and z to correct this deficiency.
Jason Kulinski:And if they get so many of those, then
Crystal:Verbal warning.
Jason Kulinski:Then they get a different write up that goes into an actual administrative jacket, and it follows them for their career, so on and so forth, all the way to, actual punishment where they can lose pay or rank or, that sort of thing. Informal type is, okay. Well, you 2 have have a beef. Well, let's take it to the mat. We have instructors for martial arts, so it's take it to the mat.
Jason Kulinski:Mhmm. Fix it. Figure it out.
Eric:So I think we should include Matt, so be it not. How cool would that be? We have a meeting have a meeting at, like, a jujitsu location or something like that. Andrew would win. Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. Andrew would win. Maybe Gus. I don't know. That would be a good match up.
Jason Kulinski:I wanna I wanna see that.
Crystal:I would I would
Jason Kulinski:be a good buddy for that one.
Eric:Any any any BNI conflicts, you know, instead of writing sending a letter, we just take it to the mat. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:I mean, that I it would work. Yep. But the it it's a at that point, it's a controlled environment. It's not like they're going out back of the building. It's there's an instructor there that is trained in it, so it's not it's not like it's just doing it willy nilly.
Jason Kulinski:So
Eric:Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. But at that point, okay, you you figure it out and they they resolve it and move on.
Eric:Mhmm. So so in in, so back to kind of in a b and I group setting, what's, because I wanna kind of, like, kind of touch on this. I feel like it kinda really got wrapped up very much. But on in, like like, managing people in a group, like, in a in a in a group setting, like, either, training them or or leading them, like, do you have do you have any any advice on maybe because I know we're not a military branch, obviously. Right?
Eric:But
Crystal:Although we'd love to incorporate the math.
Eric:I think there's I think there's a lot of learning stuff from it from that can come from military that that Right. And so so what are some some ways where maybe people aren't, you know, able they're maybe they're not listening, I guess. Maybe, like, oh, you need to, you know, put referrals in on the app or something and do kind of stuff. I'm not sure what might be the best example, but, like, what would you you you suggest on on on helping kinda lead folks that maybe aren't quite adapting into a b and I chapter as well as as
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. I see where you're going with that. That's interesting because I am also not always putting everything in. So I'm I'm calling myself out. Yes.
Jason Kulinski:100%.
Eric:I think everyone can hear you on that. I mean, there's you know, it's it's a it's a tricky thing sometimes to kind of, like, stay on stay on top of it. But I think if there's even if there's, like, a certain, like, recognition on on on that where it's like, oh, I'm I'm teaching this thing, I think you're gonna start doing that thing that you're teaching more Yeah. When you when you start teaching it yourself. Whatever.
Eric:Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. So it has to be a conscious effort. And you have to continuously kind of not so much do education moments on it Because ultimately, if someone's not doing it, they're just gonna be like, oh, they're they're just picking on me. It's gonna keep drowning out. They're just gonna drown
Eric:it
Jason Kulinski:out. But kind of kinda like what we are doing. Hey. Just remember to put your slips in.
Eric:Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:Just a real quick, hey. This is a reminder. It's helped me just kind of oh, and I've done it right there in the meeting. Boom. Oh, I need I just did an inspection.
Jason Kulinski:I need to drop it. Thank you for closed business. Yeah. It's one of those a it's
Crystal:just reminder.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah.
Eric:It's a
Jason Kulinski:it's a trigger, trigger word or whatever. Mhmm. Not those trigger words. But that helps the metrics that gets were getting sent out, and you just sent one out recently.
Eric:Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:Those help because, oh, those are my numbers? Oh, I I need to start keeping up with this. Mhmm. Yeah. They used to be sent out monthly, and I'm pretty sure
Eric:both It's it's challenging to send send those out monthly because it's not automatic. Yeah. It has to be come from from myself or
Crystal:One of the leaders.
Eric:Or one of the leadership because we're the ones that have have access to those. The the you're talking about the the traffic lights.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah.
Eric:And, yeah, I think those things like that, I think, really do help. The one that's one thing I'm really gonna be committed on is to sending those out monthly because I've have always when I was a member, I found those to be so exceptionally helpful because it really gauged where you were at, actually. And sometimes it was like, what? I'm I'm there? I'm that low?
Eric:Wait a minute. Hold up. And so that's and and so that's where it's really, really and and and that's, you know, it's not meant to, like, call anybody out. That's why we send it out as
Crystal:a big
Eric:blast one sheet for everybody and stuff too. And and and it's, like, you know, it's to help encourage you to to, you know, get your numbers up or whatever it is. Put and maybe it's sometimes it's as simple as, oh, shoot. I'm doing all these things. I'm not submitted in the app.
Eric:If you don't submit it in the app, that's why it's gonna move the numbers are gonna go down. If you
Jason Kulinski:don't submit in the app, it doesn't count.
Eric:Right.
Crystal:And then not only that. As a leader, we can also see the people that are struggling by those traffic lights. So maybe in our a note to self, it's like, okay. I see these 3 people have been on the bottom for a while. Maybe I'll schedule a one to one with them because sounds like they could use it.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah.
Crystal:And Yeah. Or also if someone's working really hard to get, like, out of the red and into the yellow, and then they submit they they close their thank you of business, and they were all ready, and then that person didn't submit it. I think as a leader, like, that's the things that we wanna try to you know, there is some overlap, and it is hard to always put our our numbers in. But remembering it's not just for us, it's oftentimes for that other person. Because if they've been working really hard to get out of the, color that they're trying to shift into the next.
Eric:Well, that's that's also why the 7 month reviews that membership membership committee does is so important because that kind of is is, like, the opportunity, to really kinda call that out because I think everyone's always kinda hesitant, like, oh, do I say something? Like, you know, as just a regular member, like, hey. I noticed you're really low. You know, you should be more like me in the green or whatever it might be. Right?
Eric:And so it's kind of, sometimes, like, I think it can be kind of awkward to call someone out, but the 7
Jason Kulinski:That's how you call it.
Eric:Yeah. Yeah. It's all about how you do.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. I know you're not in the red, but let's say you're in the red.
Eric:I'm close. I'm working my way out. I got I've been slacking for a while.
Jason Kulinski:I I wasn't gonna judge, but, you know, but, you know, let's let's say, you know, I can call you up and be like, hey, Eric. I noticed you're you're you're in the red. Like, anything I can do to help.
Eric:That
Jason Kulinski:that's all it takes. It just that's not calling anyone else, but it's, hey. I'm offering you to help. Yeah. Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:Like
Crystal:And I did that, and it helped a few people. Because when we when I started, we had 13 in the red, and we've got, 5 of those are not in the red anymore. So we're making some progress. So, we're slowly working our way. But like you said, it was just a phone call.
Crystal:Like, I noticed that you're here. Is there anything I can do to help?
Eric:I know when I had first joined, my, like, 1st year was pretty brutal. Like, I was in the gray for a long for a for a while. I was, like, a little bit, and then I was in the gray for a while, and they're like, hey. So what can we do? And and membership media, like, they did that exact exactly that, and I'm so appreciative of that.
Eric:And what I kinda for me, what I had kinda realized is I was taking too much of a, like, oh, if it's not a sale, it's not a referral kind of thing. That was my, like, main mistake, and and where it's just like, don't worry so much about that. Like, send the referral over to them. Shoot them a text message that you sent the referral, very important. Yep.
Eric:Because otherwise and I've received referrals, and I didn't realize I received a a a referral Yeah. Until, like, a a week or two later. And I was like, wait. What is this on here? I was like, oh, they just gave me a referral.
Eric:I didn't I didn't realize, so then it delays. So send a text message or email
Crystal:them. Follow-up.
Jason Kulinski:I'm I'm bad with that, but I'm in a unique position. I I had talked to Ray about this when a while ago now, maybe a year and a half, 2 years ago, I don't know, where I'm at in the process of the sale. So my referral, it might not get to them, or, like, they might not call them for 30 days because they're I just did the inspection. They close 30 days later. Like, it maybe 60 days in some cases.
Jason Kulinski:Wow. So
Crystal:Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:It might not go to them for that long, like and they don't want a phone call. They have all these other people calling them. And that's that was where I had that problem. And Ray's like, you know, just give the information. If they, you know, let them call.
Jason Kulinski:If they just don't want that phone call, they'll let them know. Whatever the case, just make that introduction. So
Eric:Well, that's kinda where you can kinda use the the, the temperature scale, actually, you know, when you submit submit a referral, like and then mention in the notes, be like, hey. I'm sending this now, but there I know they won't be ready
Jason Kulinski:Yeah.
Eric:For 30 days. Like, maybe something you already know preemptively or something.
Jason Kulinski:Well, and I Let me know. Yeah. I try that. Yeah. But I've noticed, some how do I wanna put that?
Jason Kulinski:People need to read those notes. Yeah.
Crystal:A
Jason Kulinski:lot of people just see the referral come in, and they'll call or whatever right away. They won't read the notes.
Crystal:Okay, listeners. Read your
Eric:notes. I didn't know that. I always read the notes. I'm always like, I wanna know. Me too.
Eric:Because that me, I'm I'm, like get everything prepped. So I've I've I've you I used to have, like, a fear of the phone and stuff too. So me almost, like, I need to know everything and whatnot. And so I always, like, wanna see what's what what was written in the notes. So that's actually really good to know, actually, that that some people like, oh, they just see a number, and then they just call it, and they and then they'll figure out what it is.
Jason Kulinski:Because you have to put that number in. Like, I put I was get I gave your card.
Eric:Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:Like, because it says told them that you would call or just give them your card, they will call you. Mhmm. I usually say they will call you.
Eric:Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:Like, because it's 30 days away. Like, they don't want they don't wanna talk to you right now.
Crystal:In your case, that makes a lot of sense.
Jason Kulinski:They're they're thinking about other things.
Crystal:For me, that wouldn't work well for mental health support. It's like, oh, yeah. They'll get around to it. Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:That that doesn't not work.
Crystal:No. No. No. No.
Jason Kulinski:Not at all. So, like but for and, you know, there are some urgent things. Like, I I refer Josh a lot. I I refer Mike a lot. Like, those water issues that and even or and Regina, like, electrical issues and water, those 2 are urgent that people want taken care of now.
Crystal:Yeah. Right.
Eric:So those are Those are those are tick on, and you're you're it's it's very in your face. Or when I found
Jason Kulinski:a circuit breaker that was 500 degrees. Yeah. Yep. Warning. Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:So, you know, there there's certain things that, you know, they want done now. Mhmm. So that's a little bit different. But for most things, like, you know, I've I've referred Caesar because, hey. Oh, do you know a landscaper?
Jason Kulinski:We wanna do pavers or whatever the kid yeah. Here. They don't close in 45 days. Mhmm. They're not gonna wanna talk to Cesar for at least 30.
Jason Kulinski:So because they're dealing with lenders. They're dealing with insurance companies. They're dealing with other repairs. They're dealing with the sellers. They're dealing with movers.
Jason Kulinski:And once everything's done, who knows how much money they still have, and they might not wanna do it until 6 months after that. Mhmm.
Crystal:Mhmm. So part of the leadership is the situational awareness to know the timing, the personalities. There's a lot of, like, even unspoken things, like, in communication, like people's body language. You can tell, like, if they're Oh, yeah. They're they're not gonna make a deal if your arms are crossed, and they're you know, there's certain aspects that go beyond just the leadership that you can really, like, nerd out and dive into to really, like, psychologically understand your client and yourself.
Crystal:Mhmm. What leadership qualities or techniques do you really love about BNI? Because
Jason Kulinski:Oh, man. Let's see. How long have you
Crystal:been in BNI? 2020?
Jason Kulinski:Yep. My so pretty unique situation. I'm probably the only one in the chapter that was not invited, by someone in the chapter. Interesting.
Eric:So you just found it? You looked online. Were you aware of BNI? You were aware of BNI?
Jason Kulinski:Technically, no. So we're a franchise. We have 200 locations. So we used to be a medallion member, with BNI. So I we had a concierge.
Jason Kulinski:I literally just called the concierge, said, hey. I just opened a location in San Diego. I was told I should join a BNI. I need to find a chapter. They're like, oh, we'll connect you with Ed Wilson.
Jason Kulinski:He'll get you into a BNI.
Eric:So they were suggesting, like, hey. BNI chapters are we found to be really effective in the franchise. They're actually that's very interesting.
Jason Kulinski:So Ed Wilson gave me a call. They emailed Ed Wilson. Ed Wilson gave me a call. We had a conversation. He's like, hey.
Jason Kulinski:I'm going to Escondido chapter, next week. Would you like to join me? So
Eric:So so Ed so Ed brought you.
Jason Kulinski:Technically. Technically. But Oh,
Eric:very cool. Wow. I didn't yeah. I think yeah. Most most everyone is it's an invite based.
Eric:Almost everyone, like, from somebody in the chapter usually. Yeah. That's very interesting. Yeah. That was kind
Jason Kulinski:of unique, situation for me.
Eric:Yeah.
Crystal:It's always neat to see how how people came to BNI. Like, what brought them to the the space. Because if you're there, you're ready to grow. What's nice is, like, having the like minded entrepreneurs, and you were able to express, like, you have these other people that you can give, like like Mike and Regina and the resources that actually make you look better
Jason Kulinski:Mhmm.
Crystal:As an entrepreneur because it's you are a solopreneur. It is you, but you also have these resources that kind of are you plus. Yeah. Yeah. So that leadership can also include, like, bringing other people with you.
Jason Kulinski:Exactly. And then that's, going back to, like what leadership traits for BNI, because we've kind of glossed over that. The structure of BNI, like that is a big trait that kind of doesn't get enough credit, I guess, is the best word. You have to have structure. If you don't have structure, then the everything's for naught.
Eric:Yeah. I guess I mean, you know, I think there's a few aspects with with with leash because there's the kind of leader that's, like, you know, the inspiring leaders of too that really kind of motivates people, but then there's also the structure side of things too, which is really both things are pretty equally important because if we don't have structure, then it was motivated, and everyone's kinda going in every
Jason Kulinski:Yeah.
Eric:Different direction. Right?
Jason Kulinski:Yeah.
Eric:And, you know, it's kinda like they're like, yeah, we're gonna move a 1000 miles per hour in the wrong direction. Right?
Jason Kulinski:Mhmm.
Eric:And then but if you have the the but the, the structure now that kind of, like, guides everybody. So everyone's motivated, but then they're also kind of
Jason Kulinski:Moving in the same direction.
Eric:Being guided. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's been my issue with other networking groups that that have been a part of other ones. I just, you know, it it either just feels like a, you know, morning breakfast or something, like, morning hang out with
Jason Kulinski:And as Wes, used to say, or does say or whatever, it's a good way to write off a meal.
Eric:Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Crystal:That that's the bare minimum, or you could make a little bit more out of it. Yeah.
Eric:Right. For sure. Because that's what most most of them don't really have is a whole lot of a whole lot of structure. And that's, I mean, that's what initially, like, really drew me to b and I was just the amount of the the amount of, structure that's involved. And that's actually why it's so important to kind of have everything, like, all your all your ducks in a row or whatever it might be in chapters, like, in chapter, chapter meetings.
Eric:Because, and because I've I've I've heard from from some people when something maybe doesn't doesn't, run smoothly. I've I heard from, like, a guest or visitor that was, like, hesitant when when something happened or whatever, and they're like, I got a little bit hesitant when I when so and so did, you know, this kind of thing because there was, like, a little one like, the the whole meeting is great, and then there's, like, one little issue on it. And then Yeah. Then that sends out. It's kind of like, you you know, when when when you stub your toe on a on a on a on a chair or something like that, you don't go, the rest of my body feels amazing.
Eric:No. You don't say that. You go you start complaining about that your toe hurts hurts a lot. And so and I think there's maybe some similarities where in your in your chapter, if there's an issue, everyone's gonna focus on that issue. Mhmm.
Eric:Right? And so that's why and then people like, oh, they're not that structured. And it's like, everything was perfect except for this one little thing that we're gonna get. You know?
Jason Kulinski:I I think, I don't know if you're talking about this, but it was only a couple weeks ago when we were doing the changeover of the leadership.
Eric:Well, that's that you know, that's all kind of the hard that's when the Biden that that I'm what we've been kind of learning is, like, man, this this is,
Jason Kulinski:like There's
Crystal:a lot more involved than we realized.
Eric:Yeah. Yeah. There really is. That's why ever I think everybody needs to serve president or vice president or somewhere in the the top three leadership at least once. So that way you have an understanding of, like, everything that really goes.
Crystal:Maybe. I don't know Doug Doug Copeland.
Eric:I think that's a hard no. People that
Crystal:are, like, a little probably predisposed
Eric:to better leaders. I think
Crystal:We love them, but I mean
Eric:It it it's it's good to do at least
Crystal:the capacity.
Eric:It really is. Yeah. If you have the capacity, because it really gives you a strong appreciation of, like, really what goes into it and what goes into, like, even at even as, as a member. Sometimes I know some like in in, you know, when you first join as a member, you know, you're you're you're overwhelmed. Well, that, but then you're also required, like, hey.
Eric:You know, we gotta you gotta have set one to ones with all of these people. Structure. Yeah. Set one to ones with these people. And well, I've heard sometimes, well, why aren't these people reaching out to me and stuff?
Eric:It's like, because they're doing a lot of is what it is. There's a lot of things that they're worried about. It's, you know, Yes. They're worried about you as a brand new member, but, like, there's a lot more than just that. And so it's like, if you're a brand new member, like, yes.
Eric:Set the one to ones with those with the vice presidents. They may or may not reach out to you or the president, whatever it is, because they're busy with a lot of different things just kind of, like, keeping the the keeping the chapter, like, structured.
Crystal:You
Eric:know? It's like a it's like Between the lines. Yeah. Exactly. And so
Crystal:With 45 people right now is what we have right now. It's a little bit more challenging because you've got the time management and making sure that everyone's got their roles under control. But, I mean, I think so far, we've been doing pretty good.
Jason Kulinski:You've been doing great. Like, we right on time. What? Yesterday? Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:It was yesterday.
Crystal:Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:So which, you know, when we had the visitors from the other chapter, they were amazed.
Eric:What was when you know, I've I've heard that before, and it's funny because I this has been BNI has been the only BNI chapter I've ever been for. So this is my it's my only, like, experience with it, And I I've I've I've learned that, like, you know, hitting the time mark has been probably one of the least concern. We've we've never been, like, we gotta hit our time. We're not, like, focusing on that. No.
Eric:That's the only reason we've been able to do that is because of the the the leadership structure that's already been put in place for our chapter. Like just from from from, the training that we received beforehand, it wouldn't have been been possible. I think we'd be all over the place without having those that that structure already put in place by past Yeah. Members. Right?
Crystal:And, honestly, even the director's training that I've been taking is actually helping me even more because there's there's so much within BNI that it's like, to learn it all, it takes a little while. But diving in deep, like the the business, app, like, to be able to try out some of those, like yes. There's podcasts. There's trainings. There's if you if you really wanna get into b and I, there's a lot there for you.
Eric:Yep. Yep. On the education side on that. Yep. Oh, yeah.
Eric:Totally. And, but, yeah, the the the structure, is such an important for part of just of being a being able being able to equip yourself actually to be a good leader. Mhmm. And so
Crystal:Being able to pitch yourself in a short period of time, like, that confidence of speaking in front of people that you build. Like, you can see it with the new members when they're a little timid and shy, and then they're, like, super nervous before their first presentation, and you're, like, I remember that.
Eric:Oh my gosh. My yeah. My first that's that's been one of the huge one of the biggest probably growth aspects for myself in BI is, like, the first first commercial I ever did, I was, like, petrified. Yeah. I've probably looked like a self
Crystal:I saw Suzanne's eyes just bulge when
Jason Kulinski:they told her she
Crystal:can present now. She was like, oh, man. Yeah. I guess, like, you can do this.
Eric:The first time I presented, I literally I I probably changed my underwear a few times and such too. Like, it was, like, the 94. Like, I practiced a couple of times
Crystal:Yeah.
Eric:Whole day for, like, this 8 minute, you know, the 8 minute presentation, and, like, I was, like Sweat terrified. I was like, Amber, and you talk. Like, getting through you know, trying to, like, get through this and, like you know, but it's it's it's it's so helpful to to kind of push push through that. One thing I've kinda noticed that b and I just naturally does Mhmm. It starts you off with the 32nd commercial,
Jason Kulinski:which
Eric:you petrified. Well, that's a lot easier than 8 minutes. Yeah. Right? And so it kinda starts you off there, and then you kinda go through the other stuff.
Eric:And then then you
Jason Kulinski:Well, what's nice is we also have the spotlight. Mhmm. And And the spotlight. Uh-huh. It's everyone everyone that's new usually gets at least a spot at least one spotlight before they present.
Jason Kulinski:So Yeah. They end up getting a minute. So it's a little bit longer. Not not not too much longer, but a little bit longer. So they have that little bit more confidence.
Eric:For those that for those that that that don't know, we our chapter, we do 30 seconds because if we did a minute, there'd be no way to keep on time. Yeah. And so that's why I know a lot of chapters will do 60 seconds because there may be smaller chapters, and they have the time to be able to to do that. That's why we do 30 seconds, but we do have, 2 60 second spots, basically.
Crystal:And then 2:8 minutes. Right.
Eric:And presentations. Right. And and, you know, what what's kind of interesting on on with so the way that those two spots kinda work is we have a spotlight, which is assigned by the membership committee to kind of decide, like, okay, who's who has the next spotlight?
Crystal:Someone that needs to be highlighted.
Eric:Right. Someone, maybe they're low on referrals or they're they're a new member, that sort of thing to kinda give them that that extra time. And then the other one's a a trophy winner, which I know a lot of chapters, do. I don't know if every chapter does trophies or not.
Crystal:I don't think every chapter does, but it is in the
Eric:Yeah. Structure. And what what what's there's I noticed a trophy does a few things. So one, it gives an extra member of that 60 seconds. Right?
Eric:But one thing it does, too, though, is the person that had the trophy, that that had the trophy that got that 60 seconds, they there's there's a certain level of extra attention that they have to do now. Right? Because then they have to award the trophy. Right? And so it actually kind of helps train you to pay attention better.
Crystal:Yeah.
Eric:Right? If you're maybe you're you know, because there's a lot of people in the room. It's like how you kind of
Crystal:You're forced to engage. Yeah.
Eric:How do you how do you kind of, like, really kinda pay attention on on on everybody? Or
Jason Kulinski:other members.
Eric:Right. It it could be it can be tricky at times, and that really helps, like, really tune that side of your brain to kind of pay attention and, like, and maybe if you're not used to writing notes, you'd start taking more notes and stuff too. Right? And it kind of, like, trains you that, to to trains you to do that. And I I so there's a lot there's there's so many, like, subtle things that, I never kinda really realized until, like, I I thought about or experienced it myself, and I think it's pretty cool we're able to kinda bring that to light actually here too.
Eric:So they and, again, it's all this structure. There's a
Crystal:really cool part about leadership too is where you can see where people might need some support, and maybe someone is terrified of giving a presentation. I had at the director's meeting, there was this person, and they had been stalling on finishing their their, passport program because they didn't want to present. And I said, well, what if you allowed them to have half of the time to present? Or what if you helped them present? Because I know in our chapter, we can help people run their slides and kinda make the presentation a little easier.
Crystal:But, also, just, like, there's some maybe ways to maybe make it a little easier like a baby step. Like, maybe they only want 4 minutes. And
Eric:I think that's a great way to kind of approach that too. Right? So someone who's who's because you really you should present because it is a growth thing. You should be be become comfortable into doing that. Only way to do it is just to do it.
Crystal:Yeah.
Eric:And But
Jason Kulinski:I've I've found that out. Not not so much in in our chapter. Like, I was what was called a ground safety officer, and I had to present in front of a what was our squadron? It was probably a 1,000 or a couple 1,000 marines. Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:That was a little nerve wracking.
Eric:Yeah. So That's like yeah.
Crystal:That's Ripping off the band aid.
Eric:Yeah. It's like another level right there.
Jason Kulinski:You're doing it. So I'll be quite honest. Like, I think the first BNI presentation I practiced twice, maybe once and my commercials. The 1st week, I practiced a couple times. After that, I've written I wrote I have a couple of them wrote now written wrote in written out.
Jason Kulinski:But for the most part, I just kind of wing it.
Eric:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's I'd say, you know, it takes practice and you kind of lean into kind of what maybe I think you feel is gonna help you perform the best, I guess. I mean, I'm not someone that can that can wing it. I'll just stutter and and and
Jason Kulinski:I take too long. Yeah.
Eric:I'd be all I'd be all over the place kind of kind of winging it.
Crystal:A good laugh for you, Jason. That's right.
Eric:So for me, I always I script my my commercials out, and, you know, I I don't necessarily go word for word on it, but it wanted I mean, that helps me with timing a little bit too, because I really try to keep to that that 30 seconds as much as as much as possible because it's it's respectful and not to as much, you know, to kinda keep to whatever time you're allotted. And, you know, but I think just back to the the the people being afraid to, present, you know, that's I think something that's really sometimes the obvious thing to say is kinda probably gonna make people what's most appreciative of it. So, like, that might be something for either on membership committee or maybe visitor hosts. Like, hey. You know, if you want, we could do to kinda mention that.
Eric:If if you're really nervous about it, you know, we could give you half time and maybe somebody else gets 12 minutes or something like that. Yeah. Right? I don't know.
Crystal:Have someone hop on and give a testimonial about you. Like
Eric:That that's a good idea. Q and a, I think, is kind of a good way to fill in extra time as well. So, like, if you do 4 minutes, talk about what you do, and then do another 4 minutes of of minutes. That would be worth a question.
Crystal:Our chapter. Yeah.
Eric:Yeah. I think that's a kind of a great way to kinda fill that extra time so you're not filling in, like, 8 minute. And you know what? Honestly, that 8 minutes is not 8 minutes. I think time speeds up.
Eric:It does say it really does. Everyone else, it's normal.
Jason Kulinski:I thought I
Eric:speeds up. And when I'm just like, what the heck? I'm already at 8 minutes. I'm already I'm like, it feels like it's been 3.
Crystal:Which is why we always have to warn everyone because they're like, 2 minutes. What do you
Eric:I know.
Jason Kulinski:It's flashes my last presentation, like, Eric chimed in in, like, 2 minutes. I'm like, yeah. I got my my thing. I'm like, wait a minute. What?
Jason Kulinski:Like, I thought I was gonna have time for questions and answers, but, like, I hit it right on the dot. Yeah. Like, I finished right on the dot. I was like, okay. I don't have time.
Jason Kulinski:Got it. Alright. Like
Eric:so, like, if you're worried about 8 minutes
Crystal:for 1 to 1. Yeah.
Eric:If you're worried about 8 minutes, that it it's not gonna feel like 8 minutes. Yeah. It'll feel like
Crystal:But when it's your first time, it feels like 30 hours.
Eric:That's true. Yeah. That that's that's true too. It just feels like it's taken ages. Yeah.
Eric:Yeah. I mean, but I think that's a good way to kinda kinda ease people in a little bit is is kinda just talk with them and be like, hey. How can we how can we help you?
Crystal:Mhmm.
Eric:How can we support you? And actually just ask them that question because they probably are not going to ask that. They're gonna feel like, okay. I gotta match up.
Crystal:They might not even admit that they don't want to present.
Jason Kulinski:So also what I've another idea and what I could be a potential if they don't wanna present, It is kind of a mind game because we we do Zoom for the most part.
Eric:Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:If they're on if they present on Zoom, they can just block out the people. So they're not seeing anyone staring back
Crystal:at them.
Eric:Mhmm.
Jason Kulinski:So they could just full screen it and just like, they're practicing having a conversation with themselves. Mhmm.
Crystal:Finding a better fit for them might be a good step to do then in person later.
Jason Kulinski:Or record it Mhmm. And just play the video. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Eric:Or you can just be like Jason, just presenting in front of a 1000 people
Crystal:and you
Jason Kulinski:know, with
Eric:a band aid and then That
Jason Kulinski:was that was a horrible presentation, by
Eric:the way.
Crystal:As long as he doesn't make me do push ups, we're fine.
Eric:Well, that I
Jason Kulinski:I wanna see that now. No. But that was a horrible presentation. Like, I wasn't I had practice and everything, and that's when I realized I'm not very good when I sit there and practice for too long because then I'm overthinking everything. So I just have to fly by the seat of my pants.
Crystal:So say cancel, cancel.
Jason Kulinski:Cancel, cancel?
Crystal:So when we say you said I had a horrible presentation. What about it was a great growth opportunity?
Jason Kulinski:Well, that too. Yeah. It it I did grow.
Crystal:You did. I'm sure. There's always a positive something.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. I did grow.
Crystal:And I'm I'm sure even though it felt like that to you, sometimes when we're presenting, like, there's this internal pressure where it's like like, oh my gosh. I have to say the right thing. I have to do the right thing. But they People
Eric:are gonna remember this forever. Yeah. They're gonna be quoting it for 30 years from now. Remember, no.
Crystal:Reign in my every move. Like, they're gonna notice if I move my pinky. Like like
Jason Kulinski:No. Like, I I knew I was gonna get some flack for that, afterwards, and I did. And I loved it because, well, that's what we do. So
Crystal:It's camaraderie.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. It makes you better. Mhmm. Makes you better at the end.
Crystal:Yeah. Well, I don't think any leader is going to be able to lead from the front without going through some of those challenges or obstacles.
Jason Kulinski:Mhmm. Oh, yeah.
Eric:Well, I think how you kind of respond to a lot of those those those challenges as well too. Like, I think, you know, if if something's not your your top forte on on handling something, you can kind of, you know, show a bit of honesty on that as well too. And and because if you I mean, if you kind of hide it, people will kind of see through it or whatever or you respond like, I did great. You know, you kind of get defensive or something like that. You're like, oh, relax.
Eric:You're like you know? So I I think I I think we're all growing in one way or another. Sometimes we're some people are just better in certain areas than others. It's just kinda just depends
Crystal:on what and I, we've all been there. So there's a certain level of, like, compassion and understanding because it's like, you could do this. Like Yeah.
Jason Kulinski:Go get them. You you gotta find the humor and humor in everything.
Crystal:We know you find the humor in everything.
Jason Kulinski:I find the humor in everything because, well, life's too short.
Crystal:Yes. I love that. Like,
Jason Kulinski:if you can't laugh at it, then what then it's not you I don't know. It's just if you can't laugh at it, then what's the point? Mhmm. That's pretty much my my look at it. Like, it's not even real if you can't laugh at it.
Crystal:I literally told Eric before you got here, we're gonna anticipate laughing on this podcast. There's there's no doubt about it.
Jason Kulinski:Yeah. Absolutely. Like, you have to laugh. Like and I get again, that I keep going back to it, but I spent 16 years in there. So when you're in the Marine Corps, any military branch or police, firefighter, anywhere where your life is threatened at any point, you have to laugh.
Jason Kulinski:Otherwise, you're just going to collapse on yourself.
Eric:Yeah. So
Crystal:Like, almost like a energetic release from all the pressure and stress and, like, just some way to stabilize and Yeah. Maintain some balance.
Jason Kulinski:Exactly. Yep.
Eric:Well, yeah, I think that also kinda helps you kinda just move past whatever whatever it was. Mhmm. Right? If you, you know, botched a presentation or whatever, okay, laugh about it, move on, people will forget. And then the next time you do another presentation, it'll be better because you've grown a little bit since then.
Eric:Right?
Crystal:And you're psychologically hacking into the oxytocin and the serotonin to kind of force yourself out of that little bit of a, frustration.
Jason Kulinski:Yep. See, I can always count on you for the neurological.
Crystal:Yes. Lessons. Exactly.
Eric:Yep. Yep. Yep. So, Jason, if if somebody wanted to get in contact with you to maybe ask you have a one to one with you or or ask you more about leadership stuff, you know, like, a leadership experience in the military, whatever might might be, how would they do that?
Jason Kulinski:They can give me a call at 760-755-4980. That's my direct line to my cell phone. Or they could shoot me an email at jkulinski, kulinski@hometeam.com. Or if they wanna schedule, they can go online at home team dot com backslash north San Diego County.
Eric:Great. Final thoughts, guys, on leadership?
Crystal:It was great having you here today. I don't know. Final thoughts. It was a great I really enjoyed this one.
Eric:Yeah. I think so final thoughts for me, I think, is if you are are from a BNI perspective, if you are in a in, like, a leadership position of, of some kind, you have new members to talk to those members, especially if you notice that they're kinda struggling, like and and and don't be afraid to not ask them how can how can I help you? How can I help support you in the chapter? I think the 7 month review is, like, a perfect the absolute perfect option is why it exists. But even before that, you know, it's like someone's kind of struggling already.
Eric:We don't wanna necessarily wait for them to reach that 7 month
Crystal:renewal. Communication.
Eric:I feel like it's kinda more of like the the final lifeline, if you will. So and and even if you are maybe you're not in a leadership position, but you're a member in the group, but you maybe you have experience. You've just been been a member for a long a long time and you see somebody struggling to, talk with them, have a one to one with them and and and ask them, like, I think straight up is is fine. Ask them, like, hey. How can I help support you in the chapter?
Eric:Maybe you don't call them out exactly specifically it is, but you open up the door for them to kind of, like, open up to, like, well you know? And then they might then say, yeah. You know, I'm kind of struggling a little bit. Like, I don't quite understand this. I don't understand that or whatever it might be, which is very common thing when you're brand new members.
Eric:There's so much that kind of go go goes into it. And I think, you know, the the the tricky thing is is when leadership changes, like, what we just kinda went went through, it's like we're we're learning stuff too. And so now new members come in. They're like, they're learning. We're learning.
Eric:Everybody's learning. So we're all kind of just like, what do we do? You know?
Jason Kulinski:You should always be learning, especially as a leader. You should always be learning. So, like, but leadership leaders need to have some humility as well. Mhmm. And don't take everything so seriously.
Jason Kulinski:Mhmm. That that that's the biggest thing that I've learned is you just can't take everything so seriously. You have to just kind of step back and evaluate everything and be like, okay. Wait. Well, let's reevaluate and just push forward and get everyone on the same track, and everyone goes in the same direction at that point.
Crystal:So hold yourself accountable, but have fun along the way. Yeah. Yeah. Of course.
Jason Kulinski:What what's life without fun?
Crystal:Some joy in the journey. Yes. Absolutely. Well,
Eric:yeah, I mean, that's, you know, the best way to kind of some of the best, like, educational related things are the ones that are the most fun. And comedy and just is kind of a a good way to include that in anything. Mhmm. And so I think if you take things too seriously, you kind of eliminate any kind of comedy aspect on, in whatever situation it might be. So, but, yeah.
Eric:Well, great. Thank you so much, Jason. If you guys, got value out of this episode, if you know somebody who maybe is struggling in some leadership position or you maybe know, a member that is, you know, struggling in in BNI, this could be a great episode so that they, one, they don't feel like they're alone, honestly, because a lot of people that go kinda through this. Like, if you're struggling in in kinda BNI, you're trying to figure everything out, know that you're not you're not alone.
Crystal:Yeah.
Eric:Don't Talk to your leadership, team, and and ask them, hey. I'm struggling in this area, struggling here, but just know that you're you're definitely not alone in that. And so if you know someone like that, share this episode with them. This is how we grow this show. This is one of the the the most effective ways to grow grow the this this show, and it helps your friend out as well too.
Eric:So thank you so much for for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode.
Crystal:Thank you for joining us for the business boost Hour. My name is Crystal Pravette, and this is Eric Buells. Thank you for joining us, and don't forget to document your single CEU. See you next time.
Eric:See you in the next episode.
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