16. Art Meets Business with Richard Hawk
How does art coincide with business? Is there any relation? In this episode, we meet with Rich Hauck to talk about how art, life, and business relate to each other. Stay tuned.
Eric:Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Business Boost Hour podcast. My name is Eric Beals, and I'm the vice president of BNI Escondido.
Crystal:And my name is Crystal Pravette. I'm the president of BNI Escondido, and welcome to the single CEU podcast. Thanks for joining us today, Rich Hawk. Such a pleasure to have a fine artist here today.
Richard Hawk:Glad to be here. Thank you very much. I've been looking forward to this. Excited.
Eric:Fine artist. So, Rich, before we kinda really get started, first, I wanna know how did you how did you get into finance? Because that's a very unique, that's a I don't I don't even know how many fine artists are in in in BNI.
Crystal:Very few.
Eric:And and so how did you get into that? And and and and, tell us a little bit about who, who you are and then kind of what you do.
Richard Hawk:Sure. Sure. Yeah. In BNI world, yeah, I I think I am pretty, pretty, if not unique, at least unusual, and sometimes I'll even reference that in the meetings, you know, because I am kind of, this interesting oddity. I've been, 17 years or maybe 18.
Richard Hawk:I'd actually have to look at the dates, in BNI. And for the great, bulk of that time, I was a marketing communications designer. I have been an advertising designer for many years doing branding and print design and website design. And then towards the end of that tenure, a lot of video work, so marketing videos. Now during that whole time and during my entire life, to answer your question, Krystal, I was also a fine artist and a pretty active fine artist.
Richard Hawk:So what what happened is that my my careers sort of went like this. You know? The, eventually, the the commercial design career was eclipsed by the fine art career that went like this.
Crystal:And then pendulum swung.
Richard Hawk:And then about 2 years ago, I said, okay. I'm I'm changing my designation in BNI to being an artist, a fine artist. And, that was that was a moment, really. Mhmm.
Crystal:There was
Richard Hawk:a there was a pretty a pretty big shift. Yep. So that's that's kind of been my my trajectory. And, you know, of course, my career as a commercial designer, art director, creative director for advertising cross pollinated into my career as a fine artist and vice versa too. You know, they're both creative endeavors.
Richard Hawk:The commercial application of of design is is very digital. Mhmm. And the the the fine art part, it can be digital for some people. For for me, it's it's not digital, and I can I can talk, specifically about that and how that, how that
Eric:Well, it sounds like, you know, you're you're in fields that were that were, not kind of had a natural creativity in them, like the web design and stuff like that too? Right? There's a there's a natural creativity, with that. And, yeah. And and, actually, we have right behind me is one of your, your is this an original right here or is this
Crystal:a Yeah.
Richard Hawk:This is actually a giclee, reproduction. Giclee is a French word. It it it refers to a limited edition print, which is created using very high technology. It's a super high resolution photograph to start of the original. The original, this was sold at Art Expo New York about, 15 years ago, and, they captured photographically and then it's it's printed on canvas.
Richard Hawk:And then I go an extra step, and it would actually paint on the reproduction. I haven't done it yet on this one. This one is fresh from the, from the, the the manufacturing process, but I will enhance this with some actual paint so that and and it will be signed and numbered as a limited edition reproduction. So it's just somewhere in between an original and a reproduction because it does have some paint on it.
Eric:Oh, very cool.
Richard Hawk:It's a swimmer
Crystal:Yeah.
Richard Hawk:Is the name of this piece. It's been a very successful painting for me. And, of course, the, the, the whole reason to do the limited edition reproductions is then you can share it with more people.
Eric:Yeah.
Richard Hawk:And you can also share it at a lower cost than the original was. So that has all those benefits.
Eric:Mhmm. Yeah. And, actually, for the for those, listening as well too, we'll all make sure to put, links in the description for for to to these pictures. So that way, when we kind of reference some of these these artwork pictures that you can, click on that and and look at what we're what we're talking about as well too. So now today, we, you had mentioned to me, Rich, that that you wanted to talk about the the crosses between life and business.
Eric:And so what's what does that kind of what does that mean to mean to you? And I know you you mentioned that you kind of apply that and kind of what you do. So kind of can you expand upon that a little bit? And what does that mean?
Richard Hawk:Yeah. The the crossover between life and my business, the business of art, or is, very, very, you know, an intense part of what I do as an artist because I also teach.
Eric:Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:So I teach classes and workshops in my studio space in Encinitas. But even apart from that, the the crossover or the, the commonalities between what we need to do to do a good painting or drawing or artwork, the crossover between that and what we need to do to get along in life, are are extreme and, you know, multiple points of of connection. So I'll you know, probably the the best way is for me to start out telling my story very briefly.
Crystal:You
Richard Hawk:know, we talked about that that shift from the digital or the commercial design to the fine art. Well, I was very successful as a as a commercial designer, art director, all that, and and enjoyed it very much, but, I wanted to get away from the digital. I wanted a facet of my work not to be digital. I wanted to be able to drip the paint on my shoes and not have unlimited undoes as you do on a computer. I wanted the the traditional aspect of of of painting.
Richard Hawk:And, so that was that was my dream for years, and, I did what a lot of artists do, in that I would drive around, thinking about painting. I would, collect photographic reference for paintings, you know, photos that that could be the basis for doing a painting. We call it photographic reference. I would buy the art materials and fondle the art materials and obsess over that and prepare my studio. I was doing everything but actually painting.
Richard Hawk:And, so, what I did to solve that, problem was I began to sort of develop little techniques and little strategies for myself in in order to make myself simply do this thing that I wanted to do. Did does this have sound familiar to you Yes. Absolutely. At all about something we tend to do in life. Right?
Richard Hawk:Sometimes the things we want most and the things that we wanna achieve most, we have a lot of energy surrounding that. Mhmm. And we have some trepidation and, some insecurity. So we we procrastinate, and we put it off, and we don't do it. Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:That was kind of my situation. So, yeah, I began to develop these these, little methodologies of, you know, for example, I I noticed, one one day I had a couple of tubes of paint delivered that I had ordered from, an art supplier, and, I thought, okay, I'll just, I I'm I'm not gonna do a masterpiece. I'm just gonna test these colors of these these new tubes of paint. So I I I whipped out a sheet of paper, and I I quickly did a did a drawing of a, you know, it was a head study, and then I grabbed the paint in the palette, and I was simply testing the paint. Right?
Richard Hawk:So I grabbed the brush, and I banged out this little painting. And in the space of maybe 20 minutes or half an hour, I stood back and I looked at it. I went, wow. You know, this is probably one of the best things that I've done so far, and a light bulb went off. And I realized that one of the reasons was that I was able to, lower expectation and not have a lot of a lot of anxiety surrounding it.
Richard Hawk:I was just going into pure action. And that was very a very powerful, awakening.
Eric:Your best your one of so, like, the the work that really stood out to you was work that, that I guess you didn't really think too much about on, it sounds like. Like, you just kinda started painting. You your point slow. Yeah. You're just basically testing your the the initial thought was just to kinda test the paint.
Eric:Your action or it'll, very action oriented and not
Richard Hawk:Exactly. So you you hit the nail on the head. I went into action rather than cognating about it. You know, we try to problem solve and think our way through everything, but that that that's not how a lot of things work. A lot of it is about going into action.
Richard Hawk:In fact, one of my favorite, slogans or phrases I've ever heard is life rewards action.
Eric:Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:And I've tried to apply that in my artwork and in life, and it's it's, it it's served me very well. Mhmm. Simply to go into action. Often, we don't know what to do or, you know, we're at a fork in the road and maybe each fork seems equally attractive. What do we do?
Richard Hawk:Just do something. Mhmm. Go into action. So that was that was one thing that, that helped me a lot early in the in the art career.
Crystal:Kinda what we just talked about with Brian. Right. And then He was talking about taking that first step, How important it is to to take that step and take the action Yes. And how a lot of people get in that state like you where you you knew what you wanted, but you were a little bit paralyzed to move it because there were the pressure was so hard. But once you release those limiting beliefs and just kinda did it, you found the so much joy.
Crystal:I love that.
Eric:Well, it was interesting. Absolutely. So if you if you didn't listen, we were we were, in in Brian's episode, we kind of, we're talk we were talking about, the dangers of of perfectionism. And what's interesting about this, this, I think, really complements, really well in in how that, you know, focusing on not being perfect actually leads to better results, it sounds like. And I I think that can, you know, I think a lot of people, fall into, like, analysis paralysis into which that can, of course, I think, apply to, you know, what's the right painting in your case?
Eric:It might be what's the right background, what's the right you know, get everything perfect, but then you kinda never get it done when it turns out just kind of, you know, taking that that that step and just kind of doing it. And you're a natural fine artist as well too with lots of experience. So then when you naturally do something, you just kind of know what to do right right away. Right? Yeah.
Eric:And so
Richard Hawk:it And it becomes like a muscle. The the more you do this and the more you practice this idea, the better it gets because it's cool. You just gain confidence, you know, that you're gonna initially, you know, have a feeling that you're not sure what you're doing or what what the direction is, but you you gain confidence knowing that you can have that feeling but still do well Mhmm. Because it's going into action that solves your your problem. And and, yeah, it it's, it's amazing you you were using the word perfectionism because just yesterday, Patty was showing me a thing she stumbled upon on her phone, on Instagram, and it was a writer who, was talking about how perfectionism, is the enemy Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:In terms of writing a novel, for example.
Eric:Oh, yeah.
Richard Hawk:She said, you know, you'll you know, you that first draft can be really crappy. You know? It's just start. Get it get it going. So Yeah.
Richard Hawk:Very powerful.
Crystal:That writer's block can is essentially the same thing as the block with the artist is, like, that limiting belief that's saying, if you don't have it perfect, it's not gonna be great.
Richard Hawk:But Yes.
Crystal:The truth is we gotta just start somewhere and then we can continue to cultivate it as we go.
Richard Hawk:That is right.
Eric:Yeah. And I so and I think we can, you know, I think I would we see people in in in our our b and I chapter, but I wonder often kinda wonder how many people, like, maybe want to join a b and I chapter and and kind of, like, get started with their their business going, but are just, like, too fearful to to join. Right? We see the people that are in it. We maybe see see the visitor see see visitors, but I wonder how many people don't even, like, show up.
Eric:I mean, just the it's funny because, like, so at each of our chapters, I actually put down, like like, the names of the visitors because it's nice to see your name on there. As a visitor, it'd be cool. You know, you go to a chapter, like, oh, look. There's my name up there. It's just, you know, it's just a way to go.
Crystal:Of me. Yeah.
Eric:Right. And, like, but so many it seems like only, like, 30% of the people that actually register actually even show up. And I reach out to all of them. I reach out to every I send everybody an email beforehand and stuff too just to make sure there's like they they didn't confuse get confused on the link. Sometimes our Well, in our in person
Crystal:it has been the holidays. So I think that's
Eric:True. That's true. That's true. But even before that, though. Mhmm.
Eric:And, you know, and and, you know, I I don't know why. Then people might have their other maybe they have other legitimate reason, but I wonder how many people are, like, oh, is it you know, I don't have my my commercial down. I don't have my script down or whatever it is to to to
Crystal:It's a little nerve wracking to step into a group, especially ours with, you know, such a big group of over 40 people. So,
Eric:that's true. Yeah. I mean, when I remember when I had first kind of showed up, I mean, like, my first time at our chapter, it was I was, you know, I definitely I don't think I would have came if I just saw it. I was the only way was because I was invited and and, of course, the wonderful Philip Jordan was the one who who who brought me who's, you know, he's a teddy bear with, you know, everyone. And so he's a hard person to to not like.
Eric:And so he made me feel super comfortable, but still I was petrified the first time I kind of, did it. So that's why it's I think it's so important to invite people to chapters and to, like, really encourage them to step out and not be perfect and to kind of, you know, take that action. Otherwise, and and even if it's, you know, maybe it's maybe your commercial is sloppy. Maybe it is. Okay.
Eric:Great. At least you did it, though. Yeah. Right? At least you pushed through and you you gave a commercial even if it was junk or whatever.
Eric:Fine. It might be
Crystal:scary, but you did it. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric:So yeah.
Crystal:Like, Rich, he if he hadn't ordered those tests, tubes and thought, oh, I'm just gonna not have any pressure on myself. There was a beautiful piece of art that would've never existed had he released those limitations.
Eric:It it
Richard Hawk:flowed from a place in me that was deeper than the the the sort of thinking layer. You know? We have this, you know, the the, cerebral cortex where our thinking goes on. Well and and and it's, you know, necessary in order to do a painting, but it's not the most important part. It's probably I'm getting out of my wheelhouse here.
Richard Hawk:I'm sounding like a neuroscientist, but it's probably something more like our medulla oblongata. You know? It's where, painting comes from is is a deeper place. It's the deep you know, the brain stem, and it's the heart. Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:And if if we wanna get a little more metaphysical about it, you could it's the soul Mhmm. As well. So how do we tap into that? We tap into it by letting it flow, getting out of our own way, and not trying to cognate the painting, but just do the painting going into pure action and getting it done.
Eric:What would you what would you suggest on on someone kind of like because I think, one thing that's coming coming to mind is I I do see a lot of people will kinda get get kind of stuck in a in a job somewhere or they just don't maybe like what they do but feel like they kinda have to because it's like, you know, paying the bills. But I and, you know, I think some people might might disagree with me on this. I am a pretty firm believer that, like, you, you know, you do what you need to do, but you don't need to you don't you definitely don't need to stick there. And I believe that if if you step out of that, offer another opportunity will come out of it, but it will only come out of it if you take that first step out of whatever it is that that that you're that you're looking to get out of. Like, it won't happen until you till you take that step.
Eric:And, and so, I mean, I think there's, like, a fine line being, like, okay. What's where's that where's that line at? Like, okay. Do I push through this? Or or do I kind of or do I do I step out?
Eric:Maybe it's paying your bills. Maybe what it is. So I think there's kind of a a line. I don't really know where that line necessarily is. But I think I think you might have better insight of maybe where that that line is.
Eric:I don't know. Maybe you maybe you do, maybe you don't. I'm not sure. But,
Richard Hawk:well, as I'm listening to you here, I'm I'm thinking about the fact that, well, you know, let me let me say that, you know, you're zooming up to 10,000 feet and looking at my own career. I I have now been a fine artist selling my work through galleries and selling direct, for 20 years. I have hundreds of paintings and collections all over the world. So that's given me tremendous confidence. And, but I I I say that as the foundation because in spite of that track record, and in spite of that, that confidence that I should have, I still have self doubt.
Crystal:Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:And I think it's universal to the human experience. We all have self doubt. So, you know, taking this this concept we're talking about a few minutes ago of, you know, the hesitation and the procrastination and the the putting off of what we know we should do and what we wanna do, drilling down into that, why do we do that? Fundamentally, it's all about self doubt and it's about lack of confidence. Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:So, you know, just taking those steps and plunging in and building that muscle to know that, yeah, we can feel that way, but still prevail by going into action. It it it really works.
Eric:You have a good point on that because, like, you know, someone in in kind of to go back to what I said, someone in a in a situation that they don't like being in. The reason that they're not getting out of that is because, that they they doubt that they can do anything better outside of that.
Crystal:Right? A lot of times people get comfortable and they're not happy, but they're comfortable. So it's like, which is which one is more of a driving force, the comfort or the happiness? Because there's a trade off sometimes. But, essentially, what Rich is really saying is your heart and your spirit is really what's guiding you and when you turn into that, that's when doors open or when doors close.
Crystal:And, actually, the heart is 4,000 times stronger electrical signal than the brain. So by following your heart, you can really go into more of that state of flow, which I feel like is what when those beautiful pieces of art come out as well.
Eric:Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:I love that. And I was wondering about your perspective, Crystal. Working with people and working with these issues is something you do every day, is helping people break through barriers and, you know, tap into deeper levels of themselves. So we I think, you know, our our work, you know, kind of paradoxically has has a commonality there. So, yeah, as I mentioned, I, I am now teaching as well.
Richard Hawk:I I do painting classes and workshops in my space in Encinitas, and, core, absolutely core to that, working with people whether they're I have some very accomplished artists who come and study with me, and then I have some newbies who are really just adventuring, and they're very insecure, and they're like, oh, I really probably don't belong in this class at all, and they're starting from that that that starting point. But, in both cases, the the, the experienced artist and and the newbie, they they we all tend to have these fundamental issues of self doubt or limitation or in the case of a very experienced artist, a funny thing happens sometimes where they get in a rut, and they do the same thing over and over again, and they come to me, for ways of breaking out and, doing things with with fresh mind. And, so
Crystal:that's away from the painting.
Richard Hawk:That's part part of the mix as well. So, what I share with people constantly as I'm doing the workshops and classes, I have to find ways to say it that doesn't sound the same every time because it's a theme that I need to repeat constantly is suspend your judgment, your self judgment. And, Crystal, you've studied with me. You and and and your son Luke did a beautiful workshop with me and did extraordinary work. And so you've heard me, you know, say these things and try to deliver the message in every possible way that I could that I could think of is, you know, suspend that judgment, you know, at at every step of the way and, you know, take risks and be about the process rather than focusing on the end product.
Richard Hawk:And the work becomes great. You and you and Luke both did fantastic paintings. Everybody in the workshop did. Yeah. And they were
Crystal:all unique, but they were all wonderful. And it's really neat to see that creative expression come through, but, also, like you said, suspending that judgment. I did the class mostly because I wanted my son to have the exposure because he is more creative and more artistic. But I ended up really enjoying it because so many times in life, things are so, rigid and regimented and, we we have these goals to meet and there's things we have to be so concise on and it was just really nice to have a moment where there was paint in your hand and, you could have a vision but starting to like have it come on to the paper. There was something incredibly therapeutic about that process, not just creating the art, but just being in that state of freedom of expression.
Richard Hawk:Mhmm. Beautiful. Beautifully said. Yeah. Something that goes hand in hand with all this are the the rules of the road of painting.
Richard Hawk:Mhmm. And this is where my design career, was so, helpful to me. There are there are design issues in, in in painting or or doing a drawing, that really are, you know, just as in driving a car or any endeavor that we have in life, there are certain things that you wanna know before you start. So, yes, we need to be aspirational. We need to get out of our own way and just let it flow, but this isn't art therapy we're talking about.
Richard Hawk:We we are trying to produce beautiful quality works of art, and there are rules of the road. There are things, you know, like establishing the focal point in a good place, you know, 1 third, usually 1 third in from 2 edges of the painting, having, a sense of integration to the painting where the, for example, the the the subject and the background, are integrated. So you you know, you've probably seen artworks where it's a beautiful figure or tree or flower, but it looks like it's kinda pasted on the background. Mhmm. Simple simple powerful concept in art.
Richard Hawk:If we can do things that make the background have echoes of the subject and vice versa It
Eric:complements the subjects more.
Richard Hawk:In terms of color and mark making and texture. There's all kinds of ways to do it, but that but that powerful principle of integrating the background with the figure or the subject improves the work, the, you know, understanding of color, temperature, knowing that a painting can be overall cool with warm notes or maybe overall warm with cool notes. These are some of the some of the structural things that if we know, then within that structure, we can just kinda let it flow and and let it rip, and we're gonna do really good work.
Eric:Well, you you know, it it's interesting. So one one thing that kinda came to mind now is, that, like, on the surface, though, it seems like, oh, painter, you can do whatever you want. Mhmm. Not real. You really can't do whatever you want because that could be a total disaster of of of a painting.
Eric:Like, the focal point is wrong or the the colors clash or whatever it it might be. And I I think that there's definitely a lot of similarities actually in in, business as well too because it's like I think there's, like, right ways, the right things to say and right right ways to do that. But at the same time, there is a certain there's room to do, kind of make it your own and do your your your own thing. Right? I thought, no, BNI is very structured with, you know, all all of our our core values.
Eric:Right. And doing all all all of those those things. The way I kinda see that stuff is kind of like the basics where it's like, you know, the the The fundamentals. Focal points, rule of rule of thirds or whatever what whatever aspects on on on a painting is, then you follow those things. Now make your own.
Eric:Do the do the extra thing, do whatever, you know, maybe do another different color that kind of, you know, compliments that some somebody else, has that president
Crystal:and vice president and then decide to do a podcast.
Eric:Exactly. Exactly.
Crystal:Like, there's this fundamental and then we kick it up a notch.
Eric:Yeah. Right. That's why the, you know, fundamentals are, I think, are are are so important. And and, I also think too, I I imagine that you let me know if this is right or not, but I imagine, do you, do you get a lot of people in your art, when you're teaching that to get absolutely frustrated with what they're drawing? Like they, I don't know.
Eric:They, they, they hate the way their painting's coming out or anything like that.
Richard Hawk:Yeah. Yeah. Sure do. Usually in the beginning. And, there you know, I have some tough cases that, you know, are so, self critical that I really have to go over and and kinda work with them 1 to 1.
Richard Hawk:Some some people tend to get the message and kind of, you know, the light bulb goes off and they fall in line with this idea of just I suggest suspend your self judgment. You we can be analytical of the artwork towards the end. In the in the ending stages, that's when we do wanna step back and analyze. But particularly in the beginning, just just let it go. Some people find that, you know, you know, it's somewhat natural and they fall into it.
Richard Hawk:Others are really tough. And for one reason or another, their upbringing or their their, experiences in life have made them, you know, very very self critical, and it's very difficult for them to get out of that that mindset.
Eric:Have you found that people who tend to have a negative attitude when drawing their painting or they're just self overly self critical that that's also tends to be a reflection on other parts parts of their life. Have you found is that has that been true?
Richard Hawk:I think inevitably that's gotta be yep. And this isn't to say that some of these people who are like this, I can think of one who's actually a a close friend, a wonderful wonderful person, warm, creative, person creating benefit in the world for others, so a very a very good person, but still, you know, you know, this this is a very, you know, strong direction in in in this person to to be self limiting through self criticism. And, yeah. So it it, so okay. Here's here's a good person and an effective person.
Richard Hawk:So has it limited her in her life? I don't know. It it gets, you know, it it gets very, very slippery and and complicated. But I think I think inevitably the the crossover, Darryl, I mean, you think how much more beneficial a person could be in the world if they can work on this aspect of themselves. And if this person were here on the podcast, whether she'd probably say, oh, yeah.
Richard Hawk:Well, you know, you know, you know, working with, with Rich or and, you know, exploring some of these principles that actually has helped me. I think she would probably say that. Mhmm. Yeah.
Eric:Well, because I, yeah. It sounds like it could be a, an interesting interview question, you know, like, imagine an employee of, like, you know, is you go into an interview and then the interviewer goes, hey, paint this. You know, like, you hand something and go paint paint this. That would be and then kinda see how their attitude is towards towards kind of, doing that or because I feel like you could it sounds like you could probably gauge a lot from somebody of kind of where their life is as a whole based off of their attitude on the on the on the the painting. Like, how well, you know, are they are they sell self self demeaning?
Eric:I don't know if I've never heard of anybody trying something like that, but it sounds like that that would be that would be that would be an interesting thing to to to do
Crystal:on test. Yeah. Real life, interview question. Yeah.
Richard Hawk:Totally. I think sometimes, when a person has an intense tendency to be self critical, it comes out of the fact that they hold themselves to a very high standard. So here's where it gets complicated. So it can be, a signal of a very high quality person because they're they're serious about life and they're serious about what they wanna be doing with their life. And the reason they're self critical is they they hold themselves to a very high standard, maybe an unrealistically high standard.
Eric:Yeah. Well, that kinda goes back to the perfectionism thing. Right? Because it's like, if you I mean, you you can
Crystal:But what he's saying is you can channel it. So it could go either way. You could have that perfectionism and it drive you to create a masterpiece, or you could have that perfectionism and it
Eric:masterpiece. Well, it's a lack of perfectionism, though. Right? Like, meaning, like, like, you're not you meaning you're you're you're not holding yourself to that standard, like the testing. Like
Crystal:No. Like, if you're he's saying, like, if you're so perfect, you don't even wanna put a line on the paper, then you're never gonna get
Eric:Right.
Crystal:But you're never gonna get past that
Eric:first Right. Right.
Crystal:Part of the painting, which for me, that was the first part was kind of, like, getting it down. But then Mhmm. You realize, like, I hadn't worked with oil paints before when you taught me. I didn't realize how malleable and how you can go back in and change things. And I think that also applies in life, like like we said, when sometimes you're afraid to take that first step
Richard Hawk:Mhmm.
Crystal:Because you want it to be so perfect. But life isn't perfect, but we can sometimes erase things or add over or subtract in order to make it look more like what we wanted. But that perfectionism tends to kind of it can't like you said, I could maybe go both ways based on how they process things. And, yes, 80% of everybody's thoughts are negative every day, and 90% are a repeat of yesterday. So There
Richard Hawk:you go.
Crystal:We're gonna default to a negative, but it's whether we teach ourself and train ourselves to come out of that or if we continue to spiral.
Richard Hawk:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Eric:So do do you if you find somebody, like, who, who has, like, a poor, I don't know, a poor attitude, towards their painting honestly, poor attitude. I mean, that's not that's not the right wording, but they're they're just self demeaning, self they're they're negative. That's kinda what I mean. That's what I mean by poor attitude. And how do you help them kinda through through that?
Eric:How do you help them work kinda work?
Richard Hawk:Yeah. That's a great question. Really, the primary tool I have is just repetition. Mhmm. Let's just say it over and over again.
Richard Hawk:You know, I'll start out a workshop and, you know, let's say there's, most of my workshops and classes have about 8 people in them. That's kind of the max of my studio space, comfortable Mhmm. Number. And there's always one person or maybe 2 that that have this tendency and they're the tough cases and they're self critical. And I, you know, I I often start out, you might recall, Crystal, I talk about being a Pollyanna, and I'll, you know, on the 1st day or in the 1st hour of the workshop, I'll say, you know, I I I am admittedly a a Pollyanna.
Richard Hawk:You know, that that character that just takes this rosy view of the world and, and and being uncritical and just being positive and being about momentum and trying things and going forward. And people listen and they nod their heads, but there's always that often, there's that one person that really finds that difficult to do. And I'll say, please, you know, as you work over the next 3 days or whatever in the workshop, try to, you know, self observe and self monitor and and and don't criticize yourself. And, often there's one person that they just can't help themselves. And, you know, they'll, be working along.
Richard Hawk:They go, oh, there, I did it again. And I come, well, what'd you do? Oh, I, you know, I, you know, made a black mark or I made a line, and I really don't like it, and I just said, well, change it. Just change it.
Eric:You
Richard Hawk:know? We always have veto power. Anything we do in a painting or a drawing, there's there's practically never a situation where we can't undo what we did or do something to that mark or that passage of the painting that's that's, gonna, you know, change it fundamentally so that it's it's suddenly no longer a problem. Mhmm. And, but but there there to answer your question, Erica, there are those people that fall into the self criticism, and they'll do that over the through the course of the workshop.
Richard Hawk:And all I can do is remind them gently or sometimes more and more jokingly. Oh, there goes so and so again. You know? And everybody kind of laughs because everybody knows the message and this person knows the message, and yet they still find it very difficult to proceed without self criticism. So we wonder why, you know, why why is that?
Richard Hawk:And it's probably been trained into them Yeah. Somewhat. Maybe there's been a teacher or a parent or or someone that implanted on a very deep level
Eric:Oh, yeah.
Richard Hawk:This idea that, you know, and it's it's it's almost, you know, okay. I'm a recovering Catholic, so I let me let me tell you, you know, the idea of sort of self flagellation, you know, that you have to kind of whip yourself to a higher level, you know, as a concept that's very deeply embedded Mhmm. With some people in art and in life, in my opinion, not helpful. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Eric:Well, what what's the you know, we we we've learned a lot. You you'll know this more than I would, Crystal, but we learn, a lot of our core beliefs ourselves. So, like, you know, 4 The
Crystal:first 7 years of our life.
Eric:For 7 years? Okay.
Crystal:So our brain is in a special brainwave state called the theta brainwave state. It's actually the only brainwave state that's reprogrammable. So what it means is essentially we're walking around and everything that we see and hear those 1st 7 years becomes the code, the program of what we end up attracting more of later. So sometimes you'll see someone who had a really great childhood and they'll grow up to be very happy, have an amazing family. It seems like everything goes their way and it's like, wow.
Crystal:They got really lucky. And then you'll see some people where they've had a little bit harder childhood and they'll have a lot more resistance and you'll there those thoughts will continue to bubble up for them no matter they try to push it away. A lot of times there's not actually a connection in the brain to that feeling that they would like to feel. So for me, I was like listening to what you're saying and I was hearing like all of the self criticism and the judgment, but I run, the word that kinda popped into my head was, like, self forgiveness. Mhmm.
Crystal:Mhmm. It's like, wow. These I I'm a little bit guilty of it too because I took the class. I was being a little bit harsh on myself, but I was kind of trying to be aware of it. But,
Eric:you're more you're more equipped to, like, understand what's actually happening.
Crystal:To notice it, but also, like, to know that if something happened to you in your childhood, not a lot of people correlate it. It's like, oh, I'm acting like this because I had something bad happened to me because, essentially, the real true root of who you are is who you keep coming back to. So even though they have that harsh criticism, they really are must they must be an artist at heart because they keep coming back to it. Something in their heart is pulling them towards it. Their love, a big part of it, but there is that one little part of them that maybe that doubt and it's kinda like having a teacher that's in kindergarten that, like, one of them talks to you really nice and one of them to you really harsh.
Crystal:They both could teach you the same thing, but it's the way that they teach it to you. And if we've ever had that one teacher that kind of like you, Rich, would pull you under their wing and and say, hey. You know? It's not as bad as it looks. Is it that line?
Crystal:Let's make it into something, a happy little tree. I think we've seen that. But but we can it applies in business too. Things happen to us all the time in our business. We might need to pivot.
Crystal:We might not have seen, something happen. Yeah. I mean, no one saw the pandemic coming, but everybody had to had to pivot.
Eric:Yeah. It's like an extreme version of of pivot finance. On a global level. Collective pivots, basically. Yeah.
Eric:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Hawk:Yeah. Those those are great points. That's a great perspective. Yeah. There there's a a phrase I've heard some, some, teacher or philosophers said fail fail your way forward.
Richard Hawk:Who how do we
Eric:Fell forward?
Richard Hawk:Fail fail forward. Yeah. Fail forward. Exactly.
Eric:I don't know I don't know where
Richard Hawk:that came.
Eric:I actually don't know where that term came from. I've heard that term for for, a while and
Richard Hawk:Yeah.
Eric:I I really embrace that myself because I I I was naturally very, like, a perfectionist and and would and and would, like basically, it was, like, for me, I wouldn't even, like, attempt certain things if I knew I couldn't do it, like, absolutely perfect or, like, 99 percent or whatever. Otherwise, I was like, no. I can't do that because of x y z. And, and I'd be, like, you know, super nervous. Like, oh, everyone's gonna think I suck at this when it's, like, really doesn't even matter.
Eric:Maybe I do, but no literally nobody cares.
Crystal:Everyone sucks at the beginning and whatever. Exactly.
Eric:Exactly. But, like, even though I was maybe, you know, a newbie at something, I'd still be, like, kind of, like, nervous about it. Like, like, even attempting it. And and be like, no. I can't do that because of whatever.
Eric:And, and, you know, that that that that I had to kind of overcome that that that that perfectionism to because otherwise it's it kind of just destroys it really it really limits you very soul soul limits you. Oh, so the the feeling forward, like, when I kind of heard that I was like, you know,
Richard Hawk:it's very freeing or it
Eric:is super freeing. And and honestly, when you when you when you, really dig into, like, a lot of the successful people that you maybe look up to, when you kind of like dig into, like, what they went through, you kind of go like, oh, wow, they like went through all of this and or they it's like, you know, so maybe someone has a somewhat, as a, successful successful business that, you know, you don't learn. You don't you only hear the successful part. Yeah.
Crystal:People with the most successes also have the most losses.
Eric:Too. Yeah. Exactly. And and usually more often, they usually have more losses.
Crystal:That they had to overcome and rebuild and but you have that within you. And, you know, if you can make it once, you can make it twice. Yeah. Like a giclee. Right.
Crystal:Right.
Eric:I think it's pretty unheard of that someone, like, had a lot of a lot of success, from from not failing forward from them just being perfect the whole time. Anyone. I don't think it exists. Yeah. I think that's You gotta
Richard Hawk:put yourself out there. You gotta you gotta stumble
Eric:in order to go forward, basically.
Crystal:Because then you're in a bubble of happiness, and that's not reality. I mean, yes, we all wanna be happy, but Absolutely. But real life happens.
Richard Hawk:So we are really on topic here. This is incredible. You know, this idea of how, you know, art can parallel life, and there's this crossover between the 2. It it is so so true. And, you know, another thing thing that I was thinking about is the 2 of you were were talking is the fact that, sometimes there's this thing that happens when you're doing an artwork that the worst thing can fucking become the best thing about the painting you were Yeah.
Eric:That was it. Did you experience those I call those happy accidents. That happens all the time in video editing. At some times. Tell you how many times when it's like some I like just make an edit Yep.
Eric:That I didn't intend to do. And then there's like and then I was like, woah. This worked out way better than I could have intended. I was like, fantastic. I was like, there's another happy accident.
Eric:It happens all the time.
Richard Hawk:It's this sort of flip thing that must be a principle of the universe because it happens all the time where you you do something that you didn't intend to do or it doesn't look as you expected it to look like in an artwork, and you go, oh, that's not what I wanted, but then it it you do something else to it or you look at it and you get a fresh perspective on it, and that thing can end up being the best thing about the painting. It happens all the time in drawing and painting, and it can happen in life as well. So the beauty part of art is that, you know, it's very compact and it's very, it's very immediate and it's it's right there in front of us. So life is big and complicated with a lot of moving parts and, you know, we we have relationships and people in our lives. It's it's complicated stuff.
Richard Hawk:And artwork is is this little rectangle usually right in front of you. So these lessons that we learn are very immediate and very quantified. It's kinda like the you know, your artwork is kind of a microcosm, and life is the macrocosm. But this principle of failing your way to originality and success beyond your initial imaginings even, that definitely happens in artwork. And I think, I think it's like a muscle.
Richard Hawk:So if we do it in art, then it applies
Eric:Yeah.
Richard Hawk:In life.
Eric:Yeah. I think it's a muscle too. And, you know, I I have found that if there's a if there's a certain thing usually, I think the the usually happens more where if I need to go to, like, an event, but and then there's something about it where I'm just like, I really don't want to go. But I know I need to, but I really don't want to if that's the key. It's different from like a gut like I shouldn't go.
Eric:It's more about I really just don't want to go. Those are the times when I've pushed through that and gone anyways that have actually
Crystal:Thank goodness.
Eric:I'm like, make a connection that was like, wow. If I didn't push through that, it's happened numerous times. Many times it was a b and I meeting where I just really didn't wanna go in my early days. It doesn't happen really anymore, but, like, early early days when it because I'm not really an early bird. So, like, the 7 AM that we do, like, I have to push I I push I have to push through that.
Eric:And there was a few times early on when I was in I was like, I really don't wanna go today. And if for some reason that day was it, it was just I didn't wanna go. And then I show up and then it turns out there's, like, a visitor there that I make a good connection with, or there's a a member. Maybe I I say something that stands out to a one to a member there every time something that happens. So like that hits so now it's queued in that, like, if I, if I don't want to go, I'm like, I saw I have to go now.
Eric:Now I really have to go because it, cause I've just learned that that if I get that sense, if I get that feeling, which is different, I know we've talked to the boat. We talked about this in in other episodes, which is a different feeling of I shouldn't do this where it's like a like a internal gut feeling like, oh, this is doesn't sit right. It's it's more of like just a procrastination desire, I guess, then it's just kinda like, I just don't want to Sounds
Crystal:like you're one step closer to fatherhood, Eric, because that happens a lot with kids too, where they don't wanna go places, but once they get there, they're like, thank gosh. Thank goodness
Richard Hawk:that
Crystal:we came because this was the best day of my whole life. Right. By getting them out of the house, it's like, come on. We can do it.
Richard Hawk:Kids are a great example of that flip we're talking about. They get so far.
Eric:I mean, I haven't I mean, I I work from home, so there's there's there's times where it's like, I kinda get like stuck cooped up in the house and stuff too. And so, and, like, man, those times, it's funny. The more you kinda cooped up, the more you're like, I don't wanna get out. But I'm like, I feel crappy. I feel terrible.
Eric:It's like, I need to see what the remind myself what the sun looks like or whatever. And then Oh
Crystal:my goodness.
Eric:Right. But then as soon as I'm doing that now, it's like, oh, now I feel in in that instance, it's you feel way better now for for getting out. But I think the you know, it it definitely applies to business as well where it's like, you you know, I I if you don't want to do this, you get that sense, like, definitely that means you absolutely need to do it.
Richard Hawk:We we have that structure. You know, the structure's there. It's the meeting time. It's every week. You know?
Richard Hawk:I I heard this thing when I first joined BNI that I I absolutely love now, and it's that people join BNI in spite of the rules, and they stay because of them. Mhmm. And I really believe that, you know, I'm I'm kind of a, you know, not much of a rules guy. I'm, you know, I'm an artist and kinda like breaking out and doing my own thing. But The wheel breaker
Eric:over here.
Richard Hawk:That really resonates with me, you know. I mean, the the rules in in BNI are good. The structure really is at the foundation of
Eric:I'm a I'm a structure person. So, like like, that's what that's what initially drew me to it.
Richard Hawk:To the choir here.
Eric:Yeah. I'm a structure person.
Crystal:So on your side, Rich.
Eric:Yeah. And so I I you know, when I had first came came, I mean, I had been a part of other, like, groups before that were kinda similar, like, referral based, but they didn't have the structure. And so, you know, I I think, like, the rules kinda keep everybody accountable. Mhmm. Keep us accountable to, like, like, going to going, you know, to to to the meetings and actually, you know, you have, like, okay.
Eric:Hey. You haven't been you know, someone hasn't been to, you know, 4 or 5 meetings in a row maybe because they just don't want to. But then and then it's like, okay. 1, you know, that keeps just the members, accountable and just more quality members. But it also kind of, like, it it it it it it pushes you.
Eric:It's like, okay. Now I'm gonna get a mark or whatever. I'm gonna get an absence if I don't show up or whatever. Mhmm. You know?
Eric:And then and I don't want that absence, so I push through anyways. And then because you didn't wanna go and you didn't want the absence, now you show up, you realize, oh, there was a person I should have met. I I need I I got the opportunity to meet with now, or or connect with a member that I was able to uniquely connect with them on that day, that particular day.
Richard Hawk:Mhmm. So the action is carrying you forward.
Eric:Right. Exactly.
Richard Hawk:Staying at home wouldn't get get any of that done. You know, after 18 years in BNI, I'll I'll say 18 because instead of 17 because Dave Lindsey said 18 the other day in the meeting.
Eric:I can actually look that information up.
Richard Hawk:He's the guy that vetted me. So it's probably 18. I have learned that, you know, no matter how I feel, whether I'm, you know, feeling great and awake in the morning or maybe half asleep or, you know, maybe maybe had one glass of wine too many the night before on certain occasions or, you know, you know, stuff going on in my life or whatever I'm feeling and thinking, I show up at the meeting and I know I can stand up and speak for 30 seconds. And sometimes on the days when I'm feeling the worst and the most foggy and the most hesitant, I'll stand up and do the 32nd commercial and, some win the trophy. You know?
Richard Hawk:And, again, it's that flip, that
Eric:reversal thing. You're like, really?
Crystal:I won the
Eric:trophy. Are you sure? Is there another Rich Hawker?
Richard Hawk:Exactly. Yeah.
Crystal:I love it. It does apply, though. Like you said, that you get that foundation and then the focus and some of the the rules that apply to artwork apply to to our real life, and and we really should learn to color outside the lines without judging ourselves so much.
Richard Hawk:Absolutely. There's one thing I I wanna share because it's so on point here, and that's the fact that when I do the workshops and the classes, each day, or each class, if it's a, you know, a 3 hour class, it starts out with a demonstration Mhmm. Painting or drawing by me, and I film them. I have a camera set up where I'm recording it. Every one I do now, I record it, and then that becomes a video that I can share with the class members.
Richard Hawk:But, the point is that I have to walk the walk every single class I do because I'm putting it out there, and I'm drawing or painting with a bunch of people watching. And, you know, even after 20, 25 years of doing this and my successes and work in galleries and and so on and and in collections around the world, I still feel very unconfident sometimes starting out. But can I let that be known to these 8 people who paid good money and they're standing there watching me? No. That's not gonna serve them and it's not gonna serve me.
Richard Hawk:Mhmm. So I really do have to walk the walk. I have to pick up that brush or that charcoal pencil and plunge in and talk as I'm doing what I'm doing, sharing my processes. And, again, I I find 90 8% of the time, I can pull the rabbit out of the hat Mhmm. By going into action and just doing the things that I know that I can do, that I've done many times before, I can do a good drawing or painting.
Richard Hawk:And as I if I if I flub or I make mistakes, I talk about them. Mhmm. And I talk about why that's not working for me in the painting or the drawing, and then what I'm gonna do about it. So it's all good. It becomes part of the teaching.
Richard Hawk:Mhmm. So but, it's been a great, great experience for me and a great useful, catharsis and a and a and a great learning experience for me to do the teaching because I've got to do exactly what I'm telling everybody in the class they need to do. I've gotta Mhmm. I've I've I've gotta actually walk the walk and not just talk the time.
Eric:Yeah. I think it sounds like it it it it it it it it it it's more about, like, learning, how to kind of overcome those that, like, when when that unconfidence sets in and what are we doing? If it's, you know, going to something, going going to doing a 32nd presentation or whatever it is And and, and and more about, like, what kind of learning how to just overcome that, like, when that happens.
Crystal:Or tuning into what it's teaching you. Because like you said, sometimes that fear will drive you to create something beautiful Mhmm. Or maybe you can realize that it's just an old program from someone that told you, maybe they said you will never amount to anything or you can't be an artist, and that little lingering thought might be in the back of your mind. But like you said, pushing forward with repetition, the more you do it, the more you're like, hey. I can do this.
Crystal:Mhmm. And Yeah.
Eric:I think that yeah. That repetition, you know, you you you you kinda build that build that muscle up. Yeah. That's how you you repeat. I mean, that's why we you know, if you work out, you have reps and stuff too.
Eric:It's repetition. You build that muscle. When you do that, things
Crystal:Literally repatterned your mind. Exactly. And that's why they say with young kids, it's really good to give them lots of small tasks that they can do when they do these small tasks, and they slowly begin to be able to, oh, I can do that and then they they start to add to it. So, small tasks are kind of a little hint to give to yourself like if, you need to do something big, maybe just tell yourself I would need to do 1 third of it or just like the first page of it, so that you can kind of dive in.
Richard Hawk:Every everything begins with one step. You know? Right. Any any journey, you know, the journey of a 1000 miles begins with 1 house. One step kind of thing.
Richard Hawk:One thing.
Eric:Well yeah. And and, you know, even even in, like, the the BNI meetings too, like, you know, 30 seconds, like, when I first showed up, the 30 seconds was I was petrified kind of doing those that that that those 30 seconds. And, like, you you know, goodness gracious on the the 8 minute presentation. Right? That's like the first time doing that, I was like the, it was a, you know, that was a big big stepping stone for me the first time I kind of did one of those Mhmm.
Eric:Practice multiple times. The night before, I was like white. Like Amber remembers I was like, terrified. And then when it was done, I was just like, okay, that wasn't so bad. Like, it's definitely a lot of it's like in your head.
Eric:I think too. And and and, just kind of like being, like, oh, everyone's, you know, at the extremes, like, oh, everyone's gonna laugh at me or whatever and stuff too. I'm sure that
Crystal:No one has to laugh.
Eric:Never. Anyone
Richard Hawk:But laughing is good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Hawk:Unless it's been a joke.
Crystal:Unless it's
Eric:Yeah. And, but like, that's that's the kind of the repetition stuff, though, just to kind of keep, like, if there's, especially if there's something that you're kind of like struggling in as well to, like, kind of doing something, to kind of like build that, build that muscle. I think, you know, what is the number one, the number one written fear that people have is like presenting or whatever in front of public presenting or whatever over death, I guess, or something like that. Right? People would rather die than that.
Eric:And, I wonder how true that actually is. Like, if if we came down came down to
Crystal:it back in the comments.
Eric:They actually came down came down came down to it. But, yeah. The I I And
Crystal:it sometimes will lead us to, like, a part of ourselves that is the actual truest part of ourself. So, like, for you, Rich, you're you what you do as a fine artist, yes, you can paint with oils, but you actually have a very specific way of creating art that I find incredibly fascinating, because it doesn't actually work with the materials that most people would use. Do you wanna tell people about some of your other modalities? Yeah.
Richard Hawk:That that's a great segue because, you know, the work that I do in painting in oil on copper fits in with with this whole theme of what we're talking about, and and here here's why. Okay. I take solid sheets of copper, and I design the painting, and then I do things, that are creating part of the image through a patina action on the copper. Copper will react to acids as as most people listening probably know, and you get this, beautiful texture and and blue green and darkening effects on the copper in reaction to the acid. Well, I I use these acids and actually paint with them and create sometimes most of the image with the use of this this chemical action on the copper, and then I finish it off with traditional oil paint.
Richard Hawk:And, that's, that's been a very successful line of work for me, and it's one of the things that I that I teach and I share in the workshops. So the question is why would I wanna do this? Isn't painting complicated enough already? Well, the reason I do it is because it is a co creation with the forces of nature and this business of creating the patina action on the copper. Yes.
Richard Hawk:You can design the painting and you can control it, but only to a certain point. There are things that will happen on the copper that are outside of control, and this fits perfectly with my, my desire and my my choice of the way to work because when when things happen that are unexpected, then I'm not controlling the piece. I'm having to react to the piece. So it's it's part of this this concept of adventuring and being open and reacting rather than controlling.
Eric:Kind of modifying it as it kind of changes, it sounds like, as it as the as the copper does things that you didn't expect it to do, you're kind of working around
Richard Hawk:that, working with it. So and as as you mentioned, Eric, sometimes things happen in the artwork, which are a tremendous gift. You look at the thing, oh my god. I couldn't have done that. My human hand Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:And heart and mind couldn't have created that. That's like a gift from the universe. Something happens on the surface of the copper. They go, wow. That's absolutely extraordinary, but I get to keep it.
Richard Hawk:As the artist, you always have veto power. You could change it or cover it up or undo it, but often we go, wow, that's that's a gift. I'll I'll take it. So this co creative process goes hand in hand with this idea of suspending judgment and suspending the desire for perfection and control.
Eric:Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:And, then the act of doing the artwork, the process of doing the artwork is as important to me, if not more important than the actual end result.
Crystal:Because the art's a cocreation, but so is life. Right?
Richard Hawk:Mhmm. Right on. Yeah. So beautifully so.
Crystal:Well, we know that he's not only a fine artist, but he's quite eloquent as well. Yeah.
Richard Hawk:Thank you.
Eric:Fantastic. So, Rich, if, if somebody wanted to get in contact with you, how would they how would they best do that?
Richard Hawk:Yeah. The best thing for them to do is go to my website. It's www.hawkstudio.com, h a w k, which is my last name, studio.com. They can see the work there. They can see some things about the this conversation that we've had a little bit of the philosophy behind the work.
Richard Hawk:But, mainly many examples of the work, oil on copper, oil on canvas, oil on panel, watercolor on paper, and charcoal on paper. Just a quick mention of the charcoal. The classes that I that I do in charcoal are a great, instructional and life instructional, activity as well, because it is just black and white, or a very monochromatic. We use, sometimes a colored chalk, but, a very limited palette. There's a simplicity and a fundamental aspect to the charcoal work, which is really, really great and really fun and accessible and very useful for people.
Richard Hawk:And all these things we've talked about, the lessons that come out of it Yeah. Can be very clear because there is a simplicity and I and I and I had a basic, aspect to it being, charcoal and not having the complexity of of multiple colors that we're working with and so on.
Crystal:So whatever level of life that someone's at, that they could explore some of your classes and some of your work.
Eric:Yep. Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:So I got a few, charcoal pieces. I'll hold them up. And if people are going to the YouTube channel, they'd be able to see them in the the video delivery of this,
Eric:yeah. And I'll put these pictures and the links in the description as well too. So so if, if you're listening right now, go ahead and scroll down or look at the description for this, this video or this, this episode here, and you should see links in there. But, wow. So, yeah, I didn't realize, you know, how much we could really apply art to, you know, life in this in this way.
Eric:When we, you know, sat down and sat down, I had no clue where this would even go. Normally, I have some idea, and I'm just like, well, let's just kinda see what happens. So you're
Richard Hawk:tempted? You you know, no pressure. But, yeah. It's more than just, you know, sticking a brush and paint and putting it on a surface. I think we learn and grow out of the process of doing art, and that's why it's been a wonderful life trajectory for me and why I love sharing it with other people.
Eric:Oh, yeah. I mean, it's such a cool cool outlet and actually a really good way to it sounds like a really good way to kind of, like, you know, if you're if you're if you're struggling, maybe maybe personally, something's not, you know, just kinda sitting right in your life, this might be kind of a good outlet to kind of, like, figure out
Crystal:Chance for self reflection.
Eric:Mhmm. Self reflection and kind of figure yourself out a little bit and such because there's so much that can really kind of, come out to from from doing art. So,
Crystal:which leads in some philosophy there into the art
Eric:as well.
Richard Hawk:Yeah. So let me ask you as 2 luminaries of our BNI Escondido chapter, what's the best way to to share this idea with people? What can I say or do, or what do you think sums it up or communicates it best to people so that I can share it and help people with this?
Eric:Of what we just talked about?
Richard Hawk:Yeah. Yeah.
Eric:I think, I mean, I think, oh, I mean, it's a hard, it's a complicated thing to kind of like summarize in a short area. I think this is it's not, I don't know if this is really something you can really encompass in a very short, like short, you know, 30 seconds when
Crystal:you're in it in your classes.
Eric:I think you are too.
Crystal:Continuing to have those classes, holding space for those people with the self reflection. I mean, I guess you could call in a mindset person to help with some limiting beliefs. Well, I think,
Eric:I I I think that
Richard Hawk:And I will
Crystal:just let it ex you know, like you said, let it explore, let it expand, putting yourself out to the world. This is the visibility part. So this is a great place for people to kinda reach out to you too.
Eric:Well, you know, I think I think this episode kind of, like, really did a pretty good job at, like, encompassing, like, the why, I think, behind a lot of, a lot of, you know, painting and charcoal, whatever it might be in such, like, on a deeper level and just it, like, looks nice or looks cool. Right? And and I think this episode did kind of actually did a pretty good job at that. And so yeah. I mean, send this episode, to to people.
Eric:I think this would be a good way for people to kind of definitely definitely learn, you know, who who you are and kind of how all, and and the good reasons to do painting and and art that really helps develop you in more than just your skill set of just painting. Right? Like, it's it's a lot more.
Crystal:It's not art therapy, but there is always some therapy in art.
Eric:Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to kind of summarize it. Yeah. Mhmm.
Richard Hawk:Yeah. Because this format has been great. I couldn't possibly have said everything that I've said today without your very, you know, searching questions and your pivotal comments. And, so it is a great format for drawing out some kind of truth to what we're doing, whatever it may be in business and, in life.
Eric:Absolutely. Yeah. So, if you, really kind of enjoyed this episode and, like, this was a very deep level episode, I think. And, you know, if you know someone who's actually really kind of, like, searching, they're they're that, you know, you you can tell that maybe they just haven't, quite, maybe figured themselves out and they're still still searching around for what they really wanna, want to do. They're kind of trying to find themselves.
Eric:This, I think, would be a great starting point, for them to kind of, help, help help them kind of understand that a lot of people, I think, kind of go through that, and it all points that do have at all points at different stages in their life. So send this episode to them. This is one of the ways that we really grow this this, this show is by, sharing it with people and you're gonna help a friend out by doing that. So, thank you so much, Rich. And,
Richard Hawk:thank you both. Yeah. You've been great. Absolutely.
Crystal:Thank you to our audience and, we'll see you next time.
Eric:See you in the next episode and don't forget to log your single CEU.
Crystal:Thank you for joining us for the Business Boost Hour. My name is Crystal Pravette and this is Eric Buells. Thank you for joining us and don't forget to document your single CEU. See you next time. See you in
Eric:the next episode.
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